Religions

[Avner]

Fatalism
Caramba you believe in fatalism, and that's belief that all events are predetermined by a force which we have no control over to some point( Universe )

And i can agree to some extent. Is space real, or just a construct of the mind?

One cannot say what exists independently of mind. To do so is metaphysics.
One very important element of the scientific method is the formation of a falsifiable hypothesis.
While the above method has the virtue of being parallel to the given version of the scientific method, it does not satisfy me. I can't say that I've spent a great deal of time formulating a superior philosophical method;
But this is my friend variation :
1. Pose a question.
2. Refine the question into something explainable and conceivably answerable.
3. Gather information and resources (do a literature search).
4. Consider the logical space (that is, the space of possible answers).
5. Examine arguments for and against the various possible answers.
6. Design arguments and thought experiments for and against the various possible answers.
7. Analyze the results of these arguments: Which possible answers have been shown to be untenable? What do the various answers entail, or what are they entailed by? How does this affect the reasonableness of any given possible answer?
8. Form an opinion.
9. Publish results and conclusions.
10. Reformulate or abandon as necessary in light of responses.
And your scientific method for example :
1. Define the question.
2. Gather information and resources (do a literature search).
3. Form a plausible and defensible hypothesis.
4. Design arguments and thought experiments to defend the hypothesis.
5. Analyze the arguments and draw conclusions – has the hypothesis been demonstrated, or at least defended against possible objections?
6. Optionally, go back to step 3.
7. Publish results and conclusions.
8. Reformulate in light of responses (frequently done by other philosophers).
In any way, we cant approve all; [not enough evidence], and that's why we can not answer all these questions and approve our theory's by that, AND say that we have just, and that's it. IF THE WORLD IS "IT", why you even try to live???????
Because Space provided us a shelter for some reason.
Doubt that, fortunately, there is.

I believe one important distinction to be made tends to lead to sophistry. Evidence is not always as important as communicating the premises. Science relies on a falsifiable hypothesis as mathematics is its backbone, which is capable of conveying messages in the most clarity, and more importantly precision, to those familiar with its context. This is as opposed to philosophical experimentation, which relies heavily on the Socratic Method to determine the plausibility rather than the factuality of an idea. Philosophy only settles for a hypothesis rather than a falsifiable hypothesis because it is largely a science of linguistics.


Does infinity exist?

It all comes down to how many lines are within a perfect circle.

Part II

Let us assume there's an infinite empty space.

Any part of the space is infinitisimal as a (relative) proportion.

Space is requisite of a infinitismal point (which could be anywhere) and infinite relative volume. these proportions are co-dependant.

Now the only two states are simultaneous, and a unit of seperation exists which defines a definite 'TWO'. (Like distance defines two points.)

The seperation value can only be quantified as itself, but it is definite because two and only two states must exist in empty space. The value is constant in that it defines the only seperation of states.

Thus a value which is definite and constant is derived by empty space alone, though it isn't quantifiable.

Then all dimensional apparency is equally related to the above empty space constant.
And point is:
Talk about something, which he or me do not understand or know, SPACE.
Regards

[CaRaMBa]

I would like to hear YOUR opinion and YOUR words, instead of googling some sh1t. At least give some citations. Otherwise it's pure stealing....Thanks.
http://forums.philosophyforums.com/t...ods-32945.html

[Cen]

Very nice caramba.

Since we're in open discussion, I will give you a question.

Is a man really a free-minded, does it have it's own will or are we just an all together packet of virtues/education/parent's education/momental thoughts/mood/phisical conditions

So, can we predict what will a man do in a specific situation by knowing all his principles, values, his education, his beleives, current mood etc?

I partially believe so. I don't think we actually have a free will. I think it's all about the properties I wrote above how you're gonna react on something. You can say like "you can jump of a building if you want" or "you can take a gun and start shooting people" but that's not true because you simply WON'T do that.

What yu think?

[Avner]

That's my friend variation, like i said.
I spend 1-2 hours on that forum, and i am also a moderator on that forum, don't see any problems.
And that is my opinion.

[Avner]

Hegel said once : "It doesn't matter who wrote it, but what it means."

[CaRaMBa]

Hidden Text click here to show

Very nice caramba.

Since we're in open discussion, I will give you a question.

Is a man really a free-minded, does it have it's own will or are we just an all together packet of virtues/education/parent's education/momental thoughts/mood/phisical conditions

So, can we predict what will a man do in a specific situation by knowing all his principles, values, his education, his beleives, current mood etc?

I partially believe so. I don't think we actually have a free will. I think it's all about the properties I wrote above how you're gonna react on something. You can say like "you can jump of a building if you want" or "you can take a gun and start shooting people" but that's not true because you simply WON'T do that.

What yu think?

I think I agree with you. It will be a scientific approach of the problem.

In my opinion every situation is predetermined, but not predictable. As a physics student I allways learnt about the laws of nature, and possibility has nothing to do with it. It's an other question, that in a lot of cases, we can't predict the outcome of an event, but this is just because we can't measure with infinite punctuality (uncertainty principle, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle) Probably, I haven't learnt enough quantum-physics to be able to go deeper in it, so that's all.

The main point: I believe, that the human mind can be studied with the laws of nature and can be understood, it works just like any other part of our world. That's why I believe, that our decisions are determined.

So my vote goes for: "we are just an all together packet of virtues/education/parent's education/momental thoughts/mood/phisical conditions"

Feel free to comment

p.s.: It's possible, that I'm wrong even scientifically about this determined world, sorry then.

I was thinking at night, and I come to the conclusion, that I know faaaaar less to be able to write something scientific about the topic. That's why I put the whole mess in a spoiler. Maybe a few years later.

Still, my opinion is that we don't have free will, we are determined by the things you mentioned. 1 difference to what you said: We can't predict anyones decision, it's physically impossible, and I'm sure about this one.

[Avner]

So my vote goes for: "we are just an all together packet of virtues/education/parent's education/momental thoughts/mood/phisical conditions"

Ah mob, inspires me.
Like to write, also to draw pictures and bass imperfections, that makes it just the way it is, perfect.

[Avner]

"Mob" is new topic.
Feel free to discuss.

[_TerrorBlade_]

hallo!

I see the greatest thinkers gather here, determined not to solve this matter, only to prove to the other guy 'i'm definitely much more informed than you are, thus my text is surely to be the right one'.

The title clearly says "Religions" yet since the first page the subject has derived almost completely, just like a tavern talk. What has the meaning of life or the infinity of the universe has to do with religion? Can i not prove that religion is phony shit without knowing what is the meaning of life and etc... ? Why do people summon such philosophical questions? Could it be because religion requires such involvements since its not based on facts, thus the only way for religious people to defend their believe, is to expand the whole matter into questions of science and philosophy which are clearly beyond are capabilities to solve.

My point is, in a case such case as religion, where facts that god or jesus(brought by religion itself) are absolutely inexistent, then I cannot possibly disprove nor do i need to, since the religions facts can't even begin to prove me otherwise, simply put, X has a bicycle(we've all seen one with our own eyes, just like we've seen a church), which claims it can go to 0 from 1000km/h in 2.05 secs, but nobody actually seen it(like nobody saw god).

[Cen]

god or jesus(brought by religion itself) are absolutely inexistent

Jesus is a historical confirmed person.

[Avner]

Jesus is enthusiast.

[_TerrorBlade_]

yea i got carried by my hatred for christianity, i've seen many documentaries that claimed jesus existed and etc, but in any case, what i meant is that JESUS in the bible way, as son of god, is clearly bullshit.

[Avner]

He was "mob" leader.

[Cen]

that's other story..

From Tacitus-Annals

But, despite kindly influence, despite the leader's generous handouts, despite appeasing the gods, the scandal did not subside, rather the blaze came to be believed to be an official act. So, in order to quash the rumour, Nero blamed it on, and applied the cruellest punishments to, those sinners, whom ordinary people call Christians, hating them for their shameful behaviour. (15.44.2) The originator of this name, Christus, was sent to execution by Procurator Pontius Pilate, during the reign of Tiberius, but although checked for a moment, the deadly cult erupted again, not just in Judaea, the source of its evil, but even in Rome, where all the sins and scandals of the world gather and are glorified. (15.44.3)

Very interesting to read (read whole book a year ago), when he's talking about the Roman events, and then this paragraph pops in. If you never heard of Christus and religion before, you would read this just like a by the way paragraph. The Romans called it a "cult" that was spreading all over the state. This made Neron to burn Rome and accuse christians and slaughter them.
Ofc, from the today's point of view, this is a valuable history document.

[_TerrorBlade_]

"Nero" is considered, by many, that his mental condition was probably not so healthy. Btw, in case you didn't knew, he wasn't the only one with such mental disorder, as his own mother offered herself to him, but Nero declined stating that he would've agreed if she was younger. (but who knows, maybe she at least blowed him!). I mean as far as i know, Magdalene surely blowed Jesus a couple of times.