Undead Guides

[Becko0]

Undead vs Human

There are a 3 main options in this match. The first one is to DK harass with a Rod while doing hit and runs on his Peasant line or Creepjack as much as you can. Basically, all you want to do is harass the crap out of the Human until you finally reach Tier 3. At Tier 2 play it safe and add a Lich to your DK, it'll help with AoE. At this point add 2 Statues for healing and keep on pumping Ghouls. Tier 3, you want to add a Crypt Lord, buy an Orb of Corruption for the Lich and continue your delay until you get Destroyers and Aboms, the 2 units you'll find yourself using the most in late game.

As for him, he'll probably be setting up a Riflecaster force to push hard at Tier 2. This is the most impacting battle in the game, because it is very hard to defend against. He'll probably have an AM/MK/Footies/Riflecaster while you're defending with DK/Lich/Ghouls/Statues. You're going to need towers if he does come in to your base, but your main goal is to pick off as many units as you can without hurting yourself too much. If you can get past this and reach Tier 3, the game starts getting a lot easier because Destroyers rip through Casters and Aboms eat Riflemen alive. Watch out for Gryphons and Paladin at this point.

The second option is to go for a suicide Lich/Ghoul rush. This is one of those do-or-die things. Basically, you throw up 2 Crypts and pump Ghouls as hard as you can without teching. Once your Lich comes out, sell your TP (or keep it, if you fail the rush it's going to be hard to recover anyway) buy a Rod and bring as many Ghouls as you can. Hit his Peasants hard, Nova + Ghouls + Skeletons can rip them up if he's not defending too well. Once you hit level 2 start using Dark Ritual on Skeletons or Ghouls that are about to die to keep your Lich Nova-happy. Send all low HP Ghouls back home and reinforce yourself with high HP Ghouls. If you failed and lost a lot of Ghouls or lost your Lich, then you'll have to fight really hard to win because at Tier 2, his push will be really hard to beat.

The third option is Crypt Fiends. Usually accompanied by a Beastmaster (MaDFroG style) or DK in this matchup, you'll find yourself trying to creep as much as you can as fast as you can. You can actually fight battles in this situation unless you find yourself against a LOT of Defend footmen. At Tier 2 the Human will probably get Breakers and Casters, which is where you need to play as defensive as possible. Get 2 Statues and go straight to Tier 3 where you will add Destroyers, a Crypt Lord or Naga and Aboms. However, if you scout and see that he is low on units and that your army can defeat his, then put up another Crypt and break 50 food. DK/Lich or Beastmaster/Naga as well as Fiends/Stats can lead to a quick win.

Undead vs Orc

The lifelong discussion in this matchup is whether to go Ghouls or Fiends. Basically, Ghouls means that you will be harassing most of the game trying to make sure the Farseer does not get too many levels so that later on you don't get owned in Chainwave. Fiends means that you need to creep as fast as possible while avoiding direct confrontation with the Orc as much as possible. You can't afford to fight against Speed Scrolled Grunts.

Using Ghouls, find yourself resurrecting the Death Knight from the dead early on. He's an excellent way to steal creep kills early on as well as provide healing and mobility for your Ghouls. Pick up a Rod of Necromancy and try to tech to Tier 3 as quick as you can. Bring along a few Ghouls after your tech and creepjack as much as possible but avoid actually fighting him, as Chain Lightning rips through Ghouls. Once Tier 2 comes, he'll most likely go Wind Riders. There are two options you have and they are going for Destroyers really quickly, or a mix of Fiends and Ghouls. Since you started with Ghouls, you don't have the option of straight Fiends because the transition would be really rough.

Fast Destroyers is really hard to do and you're going to need towers if you want a chance against it, as well as putting up your Slaughterhouse near the back. Basically, it means the Orc will waltz over to your base with a FS/TC/Grunts/Wyvern along with maybe a Heal Scroll. This means you will base camp as much as possible until Tier 3 when you can research the Destroyer upgrade. The best second hero in this situation is Lich because the AoE really helps vs. air. In this case you are going to need armour upgrades to survive against Bats, usually 2 is enough.

Fiend/Ghoul is a great strat and there is an excellent replay that demonstrates it here.
Basically you start off with Ghouls harassing as much as possible. If he runs away try your best to surround whatever you can. Basically you go straight for Destroyers, but in Tier 2 you put up a second Crypt and a delayed Slaughterhouse. This means less Destroyers at Tier 3 but a stronger Tier 2 army. Research Web and get Fiends out ASAP, delay his Wyverns. If you find yourself in your base with 2 or 3 Fiends while he has 5 or 6 Wyvern, put up a Spirit Tower just in case. Dreadlord works well in this situation because it provides leech for your Ghouls vs. Chainwave and the ability to sleep the TC.

Going straight Fiends also works, and you have 2 hero choices for this. Death Knight, which is the standard works well for Fiends because it provides healing and mobility. Crypt Lord is also a good choice if you go Beetles/Impale since it provides a great way to creep early on as well as the ability to fight battles.

Undead vs Night Elf

Against the Nightelves you have many strategies to use and to counter with. Basically, the Elf will try to hit you early on and mid-game while stopping you from levelling your powerful heroes. The best first hero in this matchup is indeed the Death Knight, who has probably the best spell to creepjack with as well as sniping low HP Archers and DotTs.

Unfortunately for you, the Elf has many heroes to choose from first. Beastmaster, Demon Hunter, and Warden are all very popular first heroes that have high damage output and excellent spells against your army. The Beastmaster is particularly dangerous because your main form of Dispel comes at Tier 3 in the form of Destroyers. This means that if you let your opponent get a high level Beastmaster, you're going to be rushing for Destroyers. There is absolutely no way you can fight off that many summons without Dispel. However, if he chooses Demon Hunter then he will most likely harass you early game. This is where you must learn to hide your DK while creeping and use Ghouls to try and surround the DH. You also have the choice of just mass Coiling the DH, sending it over to heal up in Moon Wells while you creep. Finally, the Warden is a great harasser and has some very powerful AoE against Ghouls and Gargoyles. You have to avoid head on fights unless you are certain you can nuke the Warden to hell, or unless you have a huge amount of heal scrolls. Second heroes are usually Panda, Firelord or KotG. The Panda has been nerfed a bit and is a high-hp AoE spewing hero. Meaning you need mass Heal Scrolls, or Abom/Destroyers to fight against this guy. KotG is useless since all his spells are negated by Destroyers, just nuke him. Firelord works like a Beastmaster but is much more fragile. It boasts potentially dangerous summons that you should try and kill/Dispel first.

Basically, the best strategy against Night Elf is Ghoul/Garg -> Abom/Destroyer. It gives you a high edge on Archers early on and a great harassing unit, the Gargoyle. The main thing you have to remember against Elf is not to fight head on. Early on, you can use Ghouls vs. Archers but against Hunts you'll find yourself suffering. A dual Crypt Ghoul rush works really well in some cases when the enemy only went Archers. AoE and Summons are way too dangerous in most cases unless you have Heal Scrolls or Tier 3. At Tier 2, pump Gargs from 2 Crypts and decide on whether or not you will get yourself a Lich. Solo DK works well vs. NE because level 3 Coil is really dangerous to Archers and DotTs. Watch a few MaDFroG/CantChat. replays and watch how he uses Gargs because they are probably your best chance in living the Tier 2 push.

Fiends also work well but you have to watch for Faerie Fire. If possible, get 2 Destroyers along with your Fiend/Statues so that you can eat up Faerie Fire. Watch Philbot replays if you'd like to know how to use Fiends in this matchup.

Destroyers/Aboms/Orb of Corruption come at Tier 3 and they are what you need to actually be able to fight head on battles without 2 Heal Scrolls and 800 mana worth of Nukes. Grab a Cryptlord or Lich if you want at this stage because that extra AoE really helps against DotTs and Archers. Finally, just remember that if you made it this far through delaying and harassing, then chances are the Elf is completely frustrated and vulnerable. Harass, delay, prevent expansions.

Undead vs Undead

Once again, the age old question of Ghouls vs. Fiends comes up once more. Basically, Ghouls do better early on for harassing and picking off Acos while Fiends will give you the stronger army during Tier 2. In most cases, player pick Ghouls and these battles lead to low HP micro wars as well as EXP denial wars. With Fiends however, players try to creep as much as possible (most likely with CL) and gain a level advantage while fending off an early rush as best as possible. There are pros and cons to both strategies, so let me give you a breakdown.

Ghouls + Lich is the basic strategy for most UD vs. UD matchups, I'll go over what to do when you have an absolute mirror match (Ghouls vs. Ghouls) Basically you want to try and pick off his Acos during his tech to Tier 2, or just fight a battle if you believe your micro is better. Your main goal however, is to make sure your Lich is higher level than his. If you're 3 and he's 2, you will most likely win any battle simply because the game is revolved around the Lich. Ritual units that you know will die, or use your Lich to pick them off. This results in no EXP for the enemy which is crucial in the "race to 3". At Tier 2, switch over to Double Crypt Gargoyles so you can keep a good advantage over Destroyers and Ghouls. He'll most likely do so as well (since the switch over to Fiends at this point is really hard given the amount of Gargs being pumped) and once again you are going to need Frost Nova as it is your best buddy. If you find yourself with a lower level Lich, you may need to pack Heal Scrolls. Just remember your early game is the deciding factor. Against Fiend users just continue to pump Ghouls and push your early armour advantage as much as you can. Pick off Acos during tech, maintain a good advantage. If he doesn't switch from Fiends just keep pumping Ghouls and go for Frenzy early while adding Destroyers.

In Fiend vs. Fiend with CL, your goal is to creep faster. Expansions are also possible but limit it to Tier 2 since you want to get a DK and Statues as fast as you can. The thing about mirror matches is that both people have the same mindset in most cases, meaning whoever slips up first will lose. Scout often, figure out the best time to attack. If you have a bigger army, consider putting up an expansion while camping outside his base. Map control plays a huge factor, especially since you both have the same cards to play. General heroes to use are CL -> DK -> Lich or Dreadlord. Against Ghouls just defend as best as you can, since he does have the early game advantage. Set up towers if you need to, just whatever you need until you can hit him with higher hero levels.

Source from www.wcreplays.com

[Becko0]

Greetings, Undeads. By now alot of you know me, some of you love me, some of you hate me. Some of you are just here because you have nothing to do but hit refresh for 8 hours while your porn downloads over limewire.

Regardless, this thread was created for you to pass your judgement on the strategy I have spent months crafting. Ever since I created the name I_MASS_PITLORDS as a joke, and vsed TheDarkLich on Mr.ReCoNs shoutcast, I've come to learn just what a pitlord is capable of doing. And it's alot more than you might expect when it comes to what is seen as one of the most imbalanced matchups in the game... Undead vs Orc.

Undead players often cry because they get stomped at tier 2 by orc players. It makes sense, when you consider the difference of strengths in the cookie builds. Undead cookie has an inherently weak tier 2, with only a DK, Lich, fiends or ghouls, and a statue or two, compared to Orcs cookie, which contains a Farseer (or blademaster), Tauren Chieftain, grunts, raiders, wyverns, and possibly even spirit walkers. Because of the difference in strength, Orc players are free to romp all over the Undead army, utterly destroying them before they can even get a single destroyer out.

I'm here to (hopefully) change that.

The strat I use doesn't involve destroyers as a standard unit! There are times when you will want to train a destroyer or two, but this is rare, as usually you will be able to go without. So lets get the ball rolling!

Hero Choices

The heroes you want to be using in this matchup are...

The Pitlord - "I come from the darkness of the pit!"
With Mr. Mannoroth, you want to be skilling howl of terror and rain of fire. Howl of terror, with its massive reduction to damage, becomes outright GODLY vs orc, who inherently have no dispellers in their army. Rain of fire is also important, as it can throw a wyvern vs fiend battle drastically in your favour.
Skilling a pitlord is done like so...
Howl of Terror at level one - The reason for howl first is because howl is an excellent creeping tool, reducing creeps by a crazy 30% damage for 15 seconds.
Rain of Fire at level two - Simply to level it up, you won't be using RoF this early into the game.
Howl of Terror at level three - This is where myself and a certain German who I won't name (hehe) were debating. About now, the Orc will show up, and with level 2 howl, your odds of surviving his push are far increased, especially considering that his raiders can be the end of your RoFs.
Rain of Fire at level four - Again, to increase its damage, although you are now able to use it (although you wouldn't want to use it on anything except webbed wyverns).
Rain of Fire at level five - This is THE way to kill wyverns (provided they are webbed and cannot move out of the AoE. A group of 5 wyverns who are all on full hp and are hit with a full RoF are all dropped from 570hp to under 60.

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The Death Knight - "The pact is sealed!"
Arthas should be self explanatory.
Death Coil at level one - Should go without saying.
Unholy Aura at level two - Should go without saying.
Death Coil at level three - Should go without saying.
Death Pact at level four - This is where I like to mix things up. People often wise up and start to focus your DK, with Death Pact, you can make them pay for doing that. Usually you will want to pact a banshee that is dry on mana, but if you need a bit of extra health, go right ahead and pact a fiend.
Death Coil at level five - Should go without saying.

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The Lich - "The ancient evil survives!"
Kel'Thuzad should also be pretty easy to skill.
Frost Nova at level one - Should go without saying, especially vs wyverns.
Frost Armor at level two - Believe it or not, Frost Armor is one of the most useful tools you have vs people who like to focus your Death Knight (or Pitlord, for that matter), as well as being a component of the Chain AMS technique. Dark Ritual is totally unnecessary for this strat.
Frost Nova at level three - Should go without saying.
Frost Armor at level four - Extra +2 Armor.
Frost Nova at level five - Should go without saying.

Unit Choices

Onto the units!

Ghouls

Early game, you may find you will have to take your ghouls off lumber, in order to swing a fight or two in your favour. For this reason, I train FIVE ghouls. You want to expand, and considering if an expo fails to go up it's gg, you need every advantage you can get for the fight, so use five ghouls.

Crypt Fiends

The main component of your army, you should have around eight of these. Their Web ability is vital if your orc opponent intends to use wyverns against you, and their burrow ability helps them survive. Be sure to research creature attack and defense upgrades for them!

Banshees

Banshees deserve a more in-depth description. The sticky in this forum contains more info on the banshee, but for now, we will focus on banshees against Orc. Every banshee spell has an excellent use in the Undead vs Orc matchup.
Curse - A spell that greatly compliments howl of terror, and one you want to leave on autocast. Curse will give any orc unit hit by it a 33% chance to miss on attacks, increasing the durability of your army by a large amount. You pretty much want every orc unit to be cursed, and at 40 mana, it's not hard to accomplish.
Anti-Magic Shell (AMS)
So many undeads complain about how chainwave destroys fiends, and it's because they don't know about this ability. For 75 mana, you can put an AMS on a single unit or hero, which will last 90 seconds. It will block up to 300 magic damage, meaning an army covered in AMS is not concerned with chainwave. It is not autocast, so you will need to remember to use it yourself.
Possess
Kodo beasts are the only real things you would want to possess, as everything else on the ground is not really worth the tradeoff. Possessing Kodos, however, is lovely, since you take two units from them, have a 1000hp tank, and a free damage increasing aura!

With their low hp, you want to keep your banshees protected, although the howl/curse combination DOES help, as does AMS vs AoEs.

Necromancers

Recently, I've discovered a powerful Orc counter to fiendshee, which is "Mass Kodos/Raiders". The reason this owns fiendshee is because the main purpose of the strategy is to reduce damage, not deal it. This has no effect on kodo beasts, and they will devour your fiends freely. With a large number of kodos against master banshees, you can expect that your enemy will have ensnare ready, should you try to possess the kodos. You'll find yourself quickly up against an army of 1000hp tanks backed by ensnare with only a few ghouls and banshees.

Ugly sight.

But if the enemy chooses to counter with raiders and kodo beasts, they're leaving themselves vulnerable to a horde of skeletons (particularly as kodos are extremely food and resource intensive). If you scout the orc and notice he is making an army of kodos with raiders, immediately stop production of banshees and switch to necromancers. To devour your fiends, the kodos will first have to get around a massive wall of skeletons, and will usually be forced to TP. In which case, you need to end the game quickly before he can capitalise on your investment into necromancers. Quickly siege his base, making sure you keep any spirit lodges or shops down (you do NOT want spirit walkers to appear).

Brief rundown of the necromancer spells, and their use vs kodo/raider...


Raise Dead
Your trump card. You want to keep a wall of skeletons between the lumbering kodo beasts and your force of necromancers and fiends (and any banshees you happen to have). If you manage to research skeletal mastery, be sure to target skeletons appropriately, skeletal mages should focus kodos, and skeleton warriors should be attacking raiders. Vital to your siege on an orcs base, be sure to keep the kodos away from your necromancers and fiends.


Unholy Frenzy
Not useful at all against kodo/raider. Save your mana for raise dead!


Cripple
Similar to Unholy Frenzy in that it's use vs kodo/raider is miniscule. Save your mana for raise dead!

Necromancers, you will find, build quicker than banshees, and the training time for adept or master necromancers is far shorter than that of banshees, which superb if you need them in a hurry (and vs kodo/raider, you really do!). Be sure to keep them way from ensnare. The last thing you want to see is a necromancer trying to summon a horde of skeletons from inside the belly of a kodo beast.

Meat Wagons

Only necessary in the scenario described for necromancers, as a counter to kodo/raider. Be sure to research exhume corpses, and have them focus kodo beasts, but do your best to keep them away from raiders.

Obsidian Statues and Destroyers

You want at least two statues, for obvious reasons. As for destroyers, the only time I would EVER morph a statue into a destroyer is if the enemy shows up with either a Dark Ranger or a Pitlord of their own, as howl seriously messes with your damage output, and Silence with your banshees.

Frost Wyrms

If you can manage to get one of these out, any orc ground is going to have no chance at all. Never get more than a single wyrm, as they are ridiculously food intensive.

Build Order

The build order is as follows.
2 acolytes
ziggurat
crypt
graveyard
altar
ghoul (scout)
ghoul (send to tavern, and use the PL, this ghoul, and the scout ghoul to creep any green creep camp while you wait for the tomb of relics to complete)
ziggurat
ghoul
ghoul
tomb of relics
fiend
nerubian tower (you have NO coil at tier one, which means no way to heal an acolyte under attack. Blademasters are particularly annoying at taking advantage of this, and a nerubian tower and the acolyte 180 trick can help, although expect to lose an acolyte)
fiend
acolyte (the 6th acolyte is for your expansion)
fiend
tech to halls of the dead
ziggurat (at main)
haunted gold mine (at expansion)
tomb of relics (at expansion)
ziggurat (at main)


Acolyte - "***** you need to get da fuk outta my face, **** you ***** all you got is pencils like you about to stab somebody" with no tier one coil, your acolytes are more prone to harassment, but you can use the tiny size to your advantage and squeeze them into spots a blademaster cant reach.

From here, you will need to protect your expansion. Don't stray too far from it (creep nearby camps), and if it comes under attack, send your fiends, skeletons, ghouls, and Pitlord to defend it! That expo has to go up, and vs grunts, a FS or a BM and possibly wolves, howl of terror makes a HUGE difference.

Once you hit tier 2, queue 4 acolytes and send them to the expansion, and summon another ziggurat over there.

Research burrow ASAP, train a Death Knight ASAP, and set up a Slaughterhouse and a Temple of the damned ASAP. You need banshees as early as possible, but you will want them adept so you can use AMS, otherwise they are going to get rocked by chainwave. Set up a sacrificial pit, so you can make shades to see if the orc is heading for your expansion. Train statues as well, but expect to come under attack. With level two howl and curse, this usually undead destroying attack becomes chicken feed. Be sure to use your ghouls if necessary, and set up a second crypt if you expect to lose them.


Azgalor - "RAWR AZGALOR!" The undead expansion comes under attack from an army of grunts, raiders, a BM, a FS, and even spirit walkers. With only fiends, banshees, and ghouls, things would look grim for the undead, but howl of terror makes a MASSIVE difference.

Upon hitting tier 3, train a lich (and be sure to put an orb of corruption on him), destroyer form, master banshees, and set up a boneyard. Aim to get a single wyrm out, but set up a second expansion if you intend to enter high upkeep.


Grunt - "This is not ****ing balance..." Late game, the army is virtually unstoppable.

Now, grunts/raiders is simple enough to best using howl/curse and a simple attack move. Wyverns en masse are MUCH tougher. For wyverns, you need to take certain precautions, such as keeping your banshees out of their attack range, as wyvern DPS is extraordinary. Before you enter any fight with wyverns, be sure to have your entire army under AMS, so chainwave doesnt end up as your bane. Send in your Lich first and nova the wyvs, then run in with your Pitlord and howl. Expect to be focused, so have a coil ready.

Attack move your fiends and banshees into the wyvs, and now the wyvs will be webbed. With the wyvs stuck, this is when you want to unleash RoF! Unfortunately, as a channeling spell, orc can stop RoF with ensnare, warstomp, stasis trap (if they actually got witch doctors) and hex.

What's an undead to do?

Goblin shops have a ****ing lovely item called a potion of lesser invulnerability, which will prevent the orc from stunning your Pitlord, leaving him free to channel his RoF (RoF is not an ultimate, and thus wont cancel the invulnerability effect). With howl, curse, rof, web, and frost nova working against them, watch as the once incredibly scary wyverns are all taken down!


Wyvern - "***ED." Perfect example of web/rof combo in action!

Once you win a decisive battle against the orc player, be he using wyverns or raiders and grunts, it's time to win! Hopefully you've scouted his expansion with your shade/s, so go and take it down. Then it's just a simple matter of taking down the orcs heroes and burrows before he types "gg".

Source from www.wcreplays.com