Orc Guides

[Becko0]

Orc vs Orc

Farseer/ Shadow Hunter/ Grunts/ Raiders/ Kodo Beasts:

One of the most useful heros in the Orc mirror is by far the Shadow Hunter. The reason is that his spells are all useful in an Orc mirror.
-- Healing Wave to heal low hp units.
-- Hex to trap/prevent units from escapin and allowing for easy focus fire as the unit cannot hit you back.
-- Ward (you get free towers for so little mana, you shouldn't be complaining).

--Get an early barracks since every single grunt does matter a lot in the early game of an orc mirror. The player who builds a late barracks tend to lose out to early pressure.

When to use what spell combo?

- Healing wave + ward for grunt + kodo
(since ward's piercing is good against kodo's armour)

- healing wave + hex for grunt + raider
(since ward's piercing is weak against raider's armour)

- ward + hex is for mass grunts
(since hex can help you to stop retreating units and wards are good)

- A lot of the pros use hex + wards. Perhaps the logic behind this is that these 2 skills are cheap (mana) yet effective. The Shadow Hunter is almost always able to cast serpent wards since they cost only 35 mana.

Grunts + Grunts > Grunts + Raiders > Grunts + Kodo > Grunts + Grunts

(that is if the raiders ensnare the kodobeasts to prevent them from devouring)

1) 4 peons to goldmine
2) 1 peon to build altar
3) 6th peon to build orc burrow
4) 7th peon to goldmine
5) 8th peon to build barracks
6) 9th-12th peons to harvest lumber
7) Build an orc burrow with 40 lumber
8) Train 2 grunts
9) Tech to tier 2
10) Build a beastiary and a warmill (you can choose not to if you are getting raiders but a warmill is needed to get demolishers and build defensive towers in case you get towered)
11) Summon a Shadow Hunter

I feel that you should always play defensively, and creep. This is because level 3 is very important for both your heroes, where you get level 2 wolves and level 2 wards. If both of you play defensively and creep, you should try to get a creepjack after your farseer reaches level 3. Scrolls of healing and protection are also very important (like the night elf mirror).

When you have a good advantage, you have two options to make the best use out of it. The first is to finish off your opponent. Send 3 peons to start towering outside your opponent's base. Do not build it too close or else your opponent would be able to destroy them. Try to do this when your opponent is creeping elsewhere, so that your towers go up without interference. Start getting demolishers so that you can hit his buildings while hiding behind the towers. You should also train kodo beasts instead of raiders, since you can devour and run behind the towers. If you are getting towered, start building defensive towers and get demolishers too. Use them to attack the towers or the opponent's demolishers. Do remember to repair them. The other way is to get an expansion and research upgrades/buy expensive items like scrolls with the additional gold. You might want to research pillage and use hit and run tactics on your opponent's base to get a little bit of resources and waste his gold (use a scroll of speed to run more quickly when he TPs home). As long as you have the hero advantage and the item advantage (scrolls), you should most probably win.

During early battles, try to kill the feral spirits since they give lots of xp in this patch. Of course, this will be at the expense of your farseer's health, so I suggest you get a voodoo lounge right after you tech so that you can heal up.

Fighting casters: Grunt raider kodo is definitely no match for tauren casters. You should either rush (with demolishers if he has towers or get casters too and expand).

--You should never use windriders, since orc has the best anti-air against low hitpoint air units. Using them would mean that you are plain stupid or brave or gosu (if you do have skill in using them after all).

-- As for map specifications, just creep with the same old creeping patterns, hang around the goblin merchant especially on Gnoll Wood to buy scrolls since there are 4 of them.


Orc Vs Human

Far Seer / Tauren Chieftain / Grunts / Shamans / Spiritwalkers or Demos (if needed).

-- Maps for this matchup
i) Lost Temple
ii) 2 rivers
iii)Turtle Rock

--This is a matchup that was viewed as in the Orc's Favour for a long time in 1.17 however with the buff on the Arcane tower it is quite balanced in my opinion. The standard human army will always go Archmage/ Mountain King/ Rifles and Casters to slow and focus fire grunts. Hence the main strategy would be take out the annoying slow and also to use the Deadly Chain Wave combo to polish off the lower hp units of the Human Army.

-- Another push that is done on tavern maps is the infamous Archmage/Beastmaster/ Mass casters skipping rifles Strategy, which is also quite effective but can be taken out in the following manner.

-- Tier 1 is where orc dominates with wolves and grunt harass, note to win you must end the game before the human reaches tier 3 and also to prevent fast expansion or deal as much as damage while that is set.

-- Always get adept shamans for the deadly Lightning shield that can wreak havoc when put on the TC or grunts. Good positioning is a must and purging of the heavy hp water elementals will ensure good experience bonus for the heros. Add in demos if the caster army is rather large (which you should prevent with early game harass).

) 4 peons to goldmine
2) 1 peon to build altar
3) 6th peon to build orc burrow
4) 7th peon to goldmine
5) 8th peon to build barracks
6) 9th-12th peons to harvest lumber
7) Build an orc burrow with 40 lumber
8) Tech on 180 lumber.
9) While teching, set up a shop and another burrow.
10) hitting Tier 2 get a TC, adept shamans, either powercreep tc to level 3 while constantly harassing with farseer (watch out for bolt stun surround so buy a staff of teleportation when harassing)


Far Seer / Tauren Chieftain / mass Air

--This is a strategy that was popularised of late by constantly harassing the Human player and preventing the Blacksmith as well as the expansion to go up. This would then allow you to put up dual beastiaries for wyverns and after about 5-6 wyverns are got, you can hit the peasants and the stop economy, thus almost ending the game there.

-- maps for this
i) Gnoll Wood
ii) Twisted Meadows
iii) Possibly Lost temple.


Orc vs Undead

FarSeer/ Tauren Chieftain / Grunt / raider /Windrider

When it comes to this matchup, The undead can go 2 ways.

a) Death Knight/Lich Fiends to Aboms/Destroyers
b) Death Knight/Dreadlord/ Ghouls/Gargs/Destroyers.

-- Always note that you have to hit the Undead early before their heros level up and they reach researched tier 3 units. If that happens, you might as well quit or have Grubby's micro to be able to snag a win.

Either way the only real way to beat Orc as undead would be to get those terrible destroyers. I would suggest you download 2 of Uruk's Audio Commentaries, where he has detailed how to deal with either of the options that the undead uses. Banshees are more popular this patch with the reduced build time on them, but die in a single hit (well almost) so you wont see any undeads going that. For the silly Mass necrowagon strat, just get 3 walkers and your fine with 600 mana on each of them.


1) 4 peons to goldmine, 1 peon to build altar
2) 6th peon to build orc burrow
3) 7th peon to goldmine
4) 8th - 12th peons to harvest lumber
5) Tech when you have 190 lumber
6) Build a barracks when you have 50 lumber
7) Build a burrow when you have 40 lumber
8) Build a voodoo lounge
9) Creep and send the nearly dead wolf to a goldmine to scout
11) At tier 2, summon a Tauren Chieftain and build a beastiary (2 if he goes ghouls)
12) Start training grunts and raiders.

Undead that go Ghouls/Gargs strat

--Orc's best chance is to go windriders, since they deal quite a lot of damage. You still need about 4-5 grunts though, since they have a lot more hp than windriders. A couple of raiders would be very useful to ensnare fiends (which any sensible undead would switch to). You should make sure you take out the statues in the battle , coz they are very help ful to the undead units. So priority wise.

--Statues > Fiends > rest of the army. The Death Knight is always a good target with the reduced armour but watch out for pots and scrolls on the undead.

--If the Undead go Aboms, you WILL need Kodos to devour and also walkers for the awesome spirit link. Don't stick to grunts/heros alone to beat their tier3.

-- Always activate scroll of protection and scroll of speed at the start of the battle. Ensnare as per the equation 2 tips above and hit out as many chain wave combos as you can. Then ensnare the fiends and try to focus fire on them with everything you have. Devour the aboms from the army and rinse repeat.

-- Towering is a good option by setting towers on outside at night. Fiends will beat the tower push, but ghouls/gargs would find it very difficult.


Undead that go fiends

Grunt raider combo is your best bet, with forcing the undead player to switch away from the slow fiends to ghouls with frenzy or aboms, in which case you switch back to mass air (riders+bats). This is a game of counters. So it would be good to get an army of mass grunts and some raiders for ensnare (once again, if there is no ensnare, the undead can micro his fiends away and you will lose out in the long run).

-- Constantly make use of scrolls

-- Keep creeping and creeping and creeping and level up the TC's wave or Stomp (either work very well against fiends).

--Set up your own expansion when you are at 50/50 (this is the only reason Orc Ud matchup is biased towards orc, enabling you to set up your expo really quick.)

--Destroyers beat most of what orc has to throw at them, so the best way to beat them, is to make sure there arent' any destroyers, this is not always possible with the good undead base defence, hence its imperative that you get 2 beastiaries with mass air and 2 bats for every unupgraded destroyer. otherwise research attack and hit different destros with concotion so as to effectively make use of the splash damage. Watch out for orbed destros as they just shamlessly walk all over the horde.

Mass Summons Strat

--This would be Crypt Lord/Tinker strat with mass summons, skip the second beastiary and go Spirit Lodge with adept walkers for taking out those pesky beetles. The most important thing is to set up your expo.


Orc vs Night Elf

A NightElf player has many options that they can throw at you and early scouting is a must to find out what strat they use. Generally its broken down like this..

i) DH / Archers/ Beastmaster/ Talons
ii) Beastmaster/Firelord/Dryads/Talons/Hunts

Basically its either the massing hunts or no massing hunts strat. Of late the Orcs have 2 strats open to them and the more popular one is definitely the Blademaster strat.

FarSeer/Tauren Chieftain (or Shadow Hunter) / Grunt / Raider strat

--Of late the Farseer is almost never used due to the heavy experience given out by the wolves and the quick death suffered by the Farseer. and if a Night Elf can set up expos your almost as good as dead. This strat involves the heavy use of harass and hitting the Elf early using the Orc's high hp tier 1 units (namely grunts) and constantly harassing during the day, retreating at night and attacking again. A best (cheesy maybe) strat i usually employ is a Tower rush with 3 peons and dual barracks for Grunts/Demos. The Gruntapult in other words. However a skilled NE will tear that apart as demos are really slow, so switching to raiders with a single beastiary and towering would seem wise. Never tower at night and right into the ne base where the NE can make use of imbalanced moonwells and ancients to destroy the rush.

--Towering is advised for all hero combos except the beastmaster who can take it down pretty quickly.

-- In that case get more grunts and a Tauren Chieftain against an archer + dott army and get demolishers and a Shadow Hunter against a hunt + dryad army. 1 barrack + 1 beastiary is better than 2 barracks because you can get a kodo beast for command aura and the raider's ensnare is exceptionally good for surrounding weak heroes like the Warden and the Keeper.

-- The Shadow Hunter works best against massing hunt ne players as well those that stick to unarmoured, with wards as level 2 resembling towers in damage, you are going to dish out a lot of damage to those units. Add in a good mix of Grunts + Raiders + Demolishers and you should be well on your way to beating the towers.

-- Always take hex first if your not rushing the NE as the SH's first skill which is very good to take out hunts and other unarmoured in the beginning as well as heros to prevent harass.

Build Order is the same as before

1) 4 peons to goldmine, 1 peon to build altar
2) 6th peon to build orc burrow
3) 7th peon to goldmine
4) 8th peon to build barracks
5) 9th - 12th peons to harvest lumber
6) Build an orc burrow when you have 40 lumber
7) Tech when you have 190 lumber
8) While teching, get a Voodoo Lounge, another orc burrow and a Warmill (if you are getting demolishers)
9) At tier 2, get a Tauren Chieftain/Shadow Hunter and build a beastiary

--The elf has the upperhand through out from Tier 2 (imo) so the best way to really beat elf is to stick to Grunt/Raider/Demo combo with hero spells and Scrolls to keep your army alive. Forget teching to Tier 3 for casters as by then, the Elf's army would be double yours and with the summon heros, you'll hardly stand a chance.

Ciara Troll Rush Strat

On maps such as Twisted Meadows and Gnoll Wood, i have seen a very successful strat of MYM]Ciara wherein you creep the camps after getting your second hero and buy troll berserkers. These mercenaries really do a lot of damage and will be well protected behind the powerful meat of the grunts. Add in demos and tower to ensure you have an upperhand throughout the attack period.

-- For Mass summons its better off to get shamans instead of raiders. If you use the Tauren Chieftain with a wand of lightning shield properly, you should have no problem destroying archers with shockwave and chain lightning. Get more of them if the 2nd hero is a firelord. Your first priority should be to purge the hawks, followed by the lava spawns. If you do have spare mana, then purge the quilbeasts. If he is getting a lot of talons together with mass summons, then I suggest getting spirit walkers to disenchant everything.

-- Another strat recently used by DayFly was the mass Grunt/Walker strat which i have seen him use to a lot of effectiveness with upgrades on armour makin it very very tough to take out the Orc units. However, this requires very very precise timing and is not advisable for a beginner to the race.

Build Order for Towering the Elf

1) 4 peons to goldmine, 1 peon to build altar
2) 6th peon to build orc burrow
3) 7th peon to goldmine
4) 8th peon to build barracks
5) 9th - 12th peons to harvest lumber
6) Build an orc burrow when you have 40 lumber
7) Build a Warmill and another burrow
8) Send 3 peons to your opponent's base and start building towers while you beat the crap out of his archers or moonwells.

Blademaster Strat

--Detailed in the sections above, where instead of Farseer you go Blademaster for early harass on wisps and also to creepjack the opponent before the talon abuse.

Source from www.wcreplays.com

[Becko0]

Gruntapulting against Night Elf:

Standard Combinations: FS/SH 5/3 push, FS/SH 6/2 push.

I've started off with Night-Elf, because this is the race I find easiest to use the strategy against. My standard unit and hero choices are detailed above - as you can see, they're not tremendously varied, because these are the two I find the most effective and have done for the last two years!

I'll usually go for a 5/3 push against Huntresses and a 6/2 push against Archers, for obvious (and already detailed) reasons. There's a lot of strategies that Elf players can employ and I'll go over some of the more common ones here.

Archers (or Hunts) to Talons, BM Second

Standard Talons are quite easy to deal with, just go Wards on your SH, focus the Talons with your Demolishers and proceed as usual. You can also use Peons as a mini meat shield.

Archers (or Hunts) to Bears

Adept Bears can be troublesome if microed correctly. Try and take the Lores out as quickly as possible with your siege to prevent Master Training being researched and then focus down any Bears when you get the chance. Never focus a full health DH with Rejuv on, because if you don't then the Elf has just all but wasted 125 mana.

Archers (or Hunts) to Dryads

Much the same as standard Talons, just spam Wards and focus down the Dryads with your siege while putting up towers or using the Peons as an extra meat shield.

Gruntapulting against Human:

Standard Combinations: FS/DR 6/2 push, FS/DR 5/3 push, FS/Naga 6/2 push

Gruntapulting against Human isn't quite so easy as against Elf, but it's certainly, as with all the matchups, possible and perfectly okay if executed well. Your main weapon of choice will be your second hero. Dark Ranger is my preferred second hero, but I'll use Naga second if the situation warrants it (such as if I've had a blinder of an early game and want to finish it quickly).

There's not a lot of variety with Human strategies before about ten minutes into the game - they mostly revolve around an Archmage/Footmen start with a tech to casters and either Rifles (earlier) or Spell Breakers (later). This makes Humans very predictable and you can usually tell what they're going to do simply by harassing them throughout the whole of tier 1. Generally, I go 5/3 against pure casters and 6/2 against Riflecaster.

I used to creep my FS to Level 3 against Human, but now I favour harassing the Human early game to keep the Archmage low level - letting it get to 3 and creep a mercenary camp is generally just asking for trouble, no matter how good your micro is.

Footmen to MK Riflecaster

Be careful not to get your DR bolt surrounded, and simply focus down the casters with your siege while taking care of any Rifles with your Grunts. 6/2 is better for this in my opinion, but 5/3 can also work. If the Human tries to use Militia, focus them down immediately (remember, easiest targets first!).

Footmen to MK Casters

5/3 is usually more appropriate here because the Grunts lose their effectiveness in a big way here, there's no real reason for them to be there other than as a meat shield. Focus down Footmen with your Grunts and create as effective a wall as you can manage, your siege will be the main DPS. Same Militia rule applies, but keep your DR on the Footmen, not the Casters.

Footmen to BM Riflecaster

Beastmaster poses a bit of a problem, especially with Riflecaster, because of the sheer amount of summons and casters, considering you have no dispel. If you see a Beastmaster, you really need to push before the Human gets too many casters, and focus on getting Grunts before Demolishers. This is one of the few situations in which I would advocate constant pressure on the Human, whether you choose to tower them or not. Snipe Footman and Rifleman kills where possible to keep the Human's food count low, and go for units before summons.

Footmen to BM Casters

Not as big a problem as Riflecaster, 5/3 and 6/2 are both fine, just do the same as with MK Casters and don't focus the Quilbeasts unless it's a free kill.

Tower Push, Tier 1 or Tier 2

Another "remain calm" situation. There are three types of Human tower rush - immediate, delayed tier 1 and tier 2.

If it's an immediate tower rush then play it as you would any other tower rush - snipe Peasant kills where you can, hide a Barracks and shop off to one side and mass Grunts. Tech if you're confident your base will hold until you can get siege out.

A delayed tier 1 tower rush shouldn't be much of a problem, because you'll be putting a second Barracks up. Just spam Grunts and get a DR second as usual.

A standard tier 2 tower push (with a Beastmaster and casters) shouldn't happen before your push - worst case scenario, your armies should meet halfway across the map. Bearing in mind you've got siege and a DR, it shouldn't be much of a problem at all. Some people may push earlier, but the same "bearing in mind" theme applies. You'll have siege, so you're usually fine.

Gruntapulting against Undead:

Standard Combinations: BM/SH 7/2, FS/SH 7/2

Any Undead going Fiends may pose a bit of a problem, because Fiends are fanastic at defending a base. This is why, when pushing an Undead base, you need at least two Demolishers, because the repair rate on Acolytes is bad enough without the Undead ony having five of them.

So, your basic strategy? Get towers and a shop up and camp behind them, punishing the Undead if he tries to get outside the confines of his base.

There's hardly any variety in Undead strategies, the one thing you need to look out for is Crypt Lord first, because those Level 2 Beetles are a nightmare to deal with when you don't have any dispel or AoE. If you see a Crypt Lord, keep it as low level as possible, and either a) go for an AoE hero such as a Panda second or b) just revert to a standard strategy if you're not all-faithful in Gruntapult!

There's a problem, however, with Ghouls. With Fiends you can follow the usual positioning rules (just make sure to have a speed scroll, that's why the offensive shop comes in handy), but with Ghouls, you won't usually be able to put the towers up against the trees because the Undead will probably have a Nerubian Tower watching that spot. If he doesn't, then by all means tower next to the trees, but just be careful of the range on the Halls of the Dead and build the towers as close together as possible if you have to build them away from the trees against Ghouls.

Basic micro in OvU Gruntapult is simple. You attempt to catch the Undead outside of his base, ideally with Boots on your BM, focus down a Fiend and Hex the DK when the Fiend is at about 200HP, giving you enough time to finish it off. Oh, and buy dust, because the Undead will save a lot of Fiends otherwise.

Gruntapulting against Orc:

Standard Combinations: FS/FL 7/2, FS/FL 8/1

Orc is probably the hardest race to Gruntapult, simply because BM/SH is so devastating to your heroes if your opponent gets a good position. It's absolutely paramount that you have at least one healing potion and one speed scroll on your heroes at any one time. This almost always means an offensive shop.

As for strategy, I prefer to harass the other player as much as possible, keeping tier 2 buildings and that all-important third burrow down for as long as I can, to prevent the second hero and Raiders/dispel hitting the floor running right as I'm about to push.

Once you're pushing them, you simply want to survive until the towers go up. The siege is almost irrelevant, because it's mostly useless against Orc units, so just keep putting towers up, cover them with shops, War Mills, Grunts, anything to get them up, because once they go up and you get a couple of siege units, provided you have a decent army and can consolidate your position with a couple of more towers and a shop, the game is basically over.

If your opponent fast techs, it's important to be in his base at 1 dot into the first night on the clock at the top of the screen, because his tech finishes at 2 and he's going to push you immediately afterwards to buy time for his tier 2 buildings. Don't let him, he doesn't have any stun yet, so there's nothing stopping you running in and out quite freely stopping his tier 2 buildings and sniping a burrow kill or two.

Anyway, that's pretty much how to Gruntapult, so I hope you enjoyed the guide and that you can apply it to one or all of your matchups. Most of all, I hope I've provided a potential solution to your problems.

Source from www.wcreplays.com

[Becko0]

Against Archers

Step 1 - FS Harass
Well, allow us to assume that the NE will be AoW-creeping because he has chosen to go Archers. That's what NE's do, aye?

Now, when he goes Archers, you're going to want to do the FarSeer harass. I'm pretty sure it was Rotterdam who used it against Soju and showed the public how you can harass with a FS. And it's really strong. When I fought against the FS harass, I lost my DH to Burrows, some Archers, and lots of Wisps.

So in the FS harass, you want to summon your Wolves and split them. If the Night Elf LOLDETONATES, make sure he'll only Deto one Wolf. And trust me, 60 gold for 32.5 mana is worth it.

If he Wisp blocks, that's pretty good. You can squeeze your Wolves through the blocks and now his DH can't get them. One Archer firing at the Wolves will be pretty slow, so you have enough time to prey on the Wisps. If your FS isn't being attacked by the DH, use his ranged attack to get behind the Wisp block. As for your Grunt(s), you can put them on the DH, Archer, non-blocked Wisp, or some Moon Well.

And if the NE is AoW creeping some big camp, that's great. He's going to have to micro those Wisps AND those units at the creeps. This particular NE right here brings ALL his Wisps to the creeps and look what happened to him -
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/...scenariouo1.jpg

So what can the NE do with his Wisps? Well there are 3 options.

1. Detonate - If you micro your Wolves correctly, he'll only Detonate one Wolf. That's good, the NE won't have a lot of lumber.

2. Die - Yeah maybe the NE has no idea how to move a Wisp, so the Wisp dies. No big deal, only 60 gold, right? Well, it's good for you, the NE won't have a lot of lumber.

3. Micro the Wisps - Yeah, some NE's try to act pro and do that cycle Wisp gold mine thing. Believe me, I've played some really show-offy Elves, and sure they can micro and everything, but they got a helluvalot to micro, and you're going to definitely kill some Wisps. And if he's moving the Wisps, he's not collecting lumber. That's good, the NE won't have a lot of lumber.

Now let me tell you that you shouldn't fear option 3. Most NE's I play when I FS harass them they go, "WTF WHEN I PICKED THIS RACE IT SAID MICRO UNNECESSARY," and they leave right there. In fact, I should end the Archer guide right here, right now. But I have to prepare you for everything.

Step 2 - Misc.
Well after you do your harass, there's going to be a bit of scrabbling. The NE can chase your FS and mass Mana Burn. Sure you'll lose all your mana, but it's not that bad. If the NE chooses to keep creeping, you should creep too. I mean, there's nothing better to do.

Hopefully you've killed a lot of Wisps. If the NE decides to mass Archers and not tech because of the lumber shortage, mass up on lots and lots of Grunts and forget about the WarMill. If the NE decides to try teching without a lot of lumber, get a WarMill up and prepare to tower.

Tinker
Against Archers, you usually want to get a Tinker. The Pocket Factory is harder to take down with Archers and the summons have normal damage which is better to kill the Archers. The extra lumber for a Tavern hero isn't costly because you're not getting any T2. Having that instant T2 hero allows you to push immediately and do as much damage as early on as possible.

There's a step 3, and it's the most important, but that comes later.



Against Huntress

Step 1 - Creeping
Don't FS harass against a Hunt build. I mean you CAN...I mean it depends. If it's a four or six player map and you haven't scouted the Hunt build, you can still harass. However, killing Wisps against a Hunt build isn't as effective as killing them in an Archer build because the NE has time to rebuild those Wisps and the NE can switch to dual AoW no-tech mass Hunts, which isn't lumber-intensive.

And so usually you want to creep. Getting to level 3 is awesome, but it's not necessary. The main strength of this strategy is the Grunts. But if you can get to level 3, do it.

Don't creep where he expects you to creep. Don't let him abuse his Mana Burn and screw up your best advantage - Spirit Wolves. Creep in different spots, walk to a remote location if you have to. Don't let him follow your rallied Grunts to your hero. The longer you can remain hidden, the more you can creep safely, and the higher your hero level can be.

Figure out the best creeping patterns. Here are some of mine for Terenas and Echo Isles.


The one on Terenas allows you to creep the Merc camp for the level 3. With that, you can get a Troll Berserker which will help you fight the Hunts. However, be careful. You'll end up with a couple of weak Grunts so you might want to build a nearby shop for faster access to Healing Salves. Creeping the Merc is pretty risky.

On Echo Isles, the creeping pattern can vary, but around your 2nd creep camp, the DH should find you.

Step 2 - Being Harassed
Well, let's assume the DH finds you, which happens most of the time. On Terenas, you might get lucky and creep straight to 3, but most of the time the DH will find you.

If the DH doesn't have Boots, you can just run. By the way, I said mass Grunts right? That means you keep making Grunts until you hit T2. So if he tries to fight you, you'll outnumber him. He'll have one or two Hunts and you'll have like 4 Grunts with Wolves. He can't fight head-on.

If the DH does have Boots and he has a clear run to your FS, you're going to have to do some Grunt manuevering. Use SpeedScrolls to run, and try to make your Grunts block the DH. It can get messy.

Again, you're going to lose a lot of your mana, but it's okay.

ShadowHunter
Against Hunts, you get a Shadow Hunter. The Serpent Wards are great for their piercing damage and with your meatwall of Grunts, the almost-melee Hunts will have a hard time reaching the Wards, as opposed to the ranged (deranged...haha, get it?) Archers.

You're going to have to wait a bit, so if he's harassing you, by the time you fight him off, your SH should be almost out. If he's not harassing you, take the time to creep one more camp.



=========================================


STEP THREE

Okay, so those are the differences between your play against both Archers and Huntress. As you can see, both of those have two steps. The third step is the same for both... The mass Grunt push.

So you get your two heroes. You should have 6-7 Grunts with FS/SH, 5-6 with FS/Tinker. Basically you bring all your Grunts and you usually bring 3 Peons and you push him.

You mass Wards/Pocket Factories. As said above, your FS may lose all his mana sometime during the early game. Just one Clarity Potion is fine for one pair of Wolves. Hopefully the NE will be too busy microing his army to bring a Wisp to Detonate.

Against Hunts, just attack-move your Grunts into him. If he backs up the Hunts, focus his heroes. If he backs up everything, focus the Quillbeast or something. If he backs up EVERYTHING, you back up. And you WANT him to back up.

Now keep in mind that he can't fight head-on until he gets some T2 anti-Grunt out. That means you got some map control! Out in the field, he can hit-and-run your Grunts, but if you're in his base, he has nowhere to run. So what do you do with that map control? TOWER!!!1!

So he backs off, right? And you back off too. But if you're towering, he HAS to fight you. But he CAN'T. But he HAS to. But he CAN'T. Uh-oh, towers come up...

Well, if he has T2 out and you can't get into his base, switch to Demolishers. Build a second Barracks next to your towers if you have to. He's got to come out if you got Demolishers. But he CAN'T. Because of your towers.

So when your towers come up, maybe he kind of fought you. Maybe he had a couple of extra Hunts, maybe 5-6 instead of 3-4 in response to your rush. So you and him have a little street fight, Grunts vs Hunts. Well, Grunts have 800 HP with that upgrade and if you micro properly, you're gonna have a couple of red Grunts when your towers come up. Or maybe you lose a lot of Grunts but your towers still come up. Like I said, Grunts have 800 HP, they take time to kill, and that time let's you get those towers up!



That NE can't fight head-on with 4 Hunts and his two heroes. And yes, I did go Goblin Tinker in that game, SO WHAT. No one's perfect.

So while he's dodging your army and try to be pro with DH run in kill stuff run back micro things, your towers come up. Keep making towers, make a 2nd Barracks or a shop if you want to. Use Backpack and send a weak Grunt to collect two Salves for you while the NE turtles. Eventually get out Demolishers to counter turtling NE's, Dryads, and DotT's. The NE is trapped.

The only time when you don't want to tower is when you got loads of Grunts and you can go into the heart of his base to hunt down Archers. That's when towers aren't even needed.


What if...

What if he somehow manages to fight off 6-7 Grunts, Wolves, mass Wards or Goblins with 3-4 Hunts or 4-5 Archers and some Quillbeasts?

Well, you're going to have to improvise. He's going to get out some Dryads and DotTs fast. If he's teching to Bears, keep making Grunts and overrun him. But usually he will go Dryads and/or DotTs, and you need to know your options.

Just to let you know, I've never lost with the mass Grunt push and the game always ended during the push, so I'm theorycrafting here.

You can expand and tower yourself. 2-4 towers will do, depending on how many Grunts you have. With the expo, you can mass up on whatever you need to counter him.

You can mass Raiders to counter his mass unarmored with your Grunts as a meat-line. But if your push fails (even though it shouldn't) you're not going to have a lot of Grunts anyway.

You can do a Gruntapult with a second tower attempt or something. Make something up, damn.

Still, you're going to have mass summons and everything. You're going to have to go back to the cookie cut if your push fails. Do something cool, like Grunt/Demolisher/Raider/Kodo or something.


Misc. Tips

- Keep making Grunts. Only stop when you need to save gold for your 2nd hero. Switch to Demolishers if things are looking good during the push, keep pumping Grunts if the fight isn't particularly on your side.

- You HAVE to scout. You need to know whether he goes Hunts or Archers, it really will help you.

Countering the Counters

Well, let's say your NE opponent is creative. Innovative. Most NE's will try to fight the mass Grunts head-on and your towers come up. But the NE's can do other things.

Mass Hunts - Some Night Elves will screw the T2 tech and go for mass Hunts. If he has a lot of Hunts, set up a tower in your base, keep massing Grunts. Your mass Grunts can beat his mass Hunts if you spam your Serpent Wards.

Mass Hunts/Archers - This might be a problem. Consider SpeedScrolling into his Archers, past his Hunt line. If the NE micros well, he can mass up a very scary force of Hunts/Archers and you suddenly can't push him. Remember that the Archers do the most damage with their focus fire, so try to take care of them as best as you can. Try Panda 2nd and powercreeping him with mass Grunts.

Mass AoWs - Let's say they are anti-rush paranoids and they build a billion AoWs in defense. I haven't faced this, but against it, you can dodge the AoWs and tower somewhere else, or stay back, and use Demolishers to snipe him down.

Uproot n stuff - Maybe the NE will do some stuff, that stuff that NE's do, you know? Uprooting trees and moving their base...stuff like that. If he somehow outsmarts you with a platter of NE imbalance, get's a second base or takes out yours... You're going to have to (re)build at his base with your towers protecting. If he has some second base, tower and Demo push that one.

Most NE's won't be creative anyway. This push is really strong and if you lose with it, you probably did something wrong.


Alternatives

With mass Grunts, you can mass expand, but that's not preferable because Orc expansions are hard to get up.

You can mass creep, but why would you do that?

Basically there are interesting things you can do with mass Grunts. Feel free to experiment if you're feeling lucky.


Summary
VS Archers - FS harass, Tinker 2nd, push when you get him, tower if needed.
VS Hunts - FS creep, ShadowHunter 2nd, push when SH comes out, tower.

Push when your 2nd hero comes out, delay him, get up towers, adapt. If he has T2 unarmored, get Demolishers.

Source from www.wcreplays.com