Human vs ... Strategies

[pito666]

hello i would like to ask some good human player how can i counter with humans vs UD on turtle rock when his base is next to me. when i play vs ud i often make fast expand mk+paladin and knights + girocopters +tanks but on turtle rock its hard to make fast expand and i am not SKY or INFI so when i play on turtle rock and UD is next to me i lose ....any good advice ?

[TBK.Goldy]

make an expansion at the far end of the map, or at the far spawn point, and hope the ud wont discover it. This just shows how you've become dependant on FE and have troubles playing without it.

[pito666]

true , but i think FE is one of humans biggest advatages

[SHp|PascalHenS]

rofl goldy...imba advice....And how can he take FE without millita??Takiing FE is crucial for humans at the beginning of the game and its impossible without millitiA....mY Point is that on that map millitia cant last that long...Mby its spawn time lasts to the mine but it will pass while creeping so its useless..On that map u should try to harras him while he creeps ..I tried and it works for me just fine...And also u could learn TR cuz its very effective vs UDs.Although i said that FE should be taken at the very beginning u can always creep RED creep mine and take expo later in the game. Hope i helped

[TBK.Goldy]

Yep... scout, if ud goes fiends - tr, if not, then try playing without expansion, make some footes, and expect Dk with 8ghouls coming soon to your base.

[CrowJaM]

........... undeads vs human dont go fast fiends especialy on TR ( unless he wants to risk ALOT ) so if u go tower rush him asap , ghuls will aim for peasant , and later then u builded some towers and started to upgrade them undead will have some fiends already shooting ur towers and getting back near his towers , later on he will get lich and win , and just go to t2 at t2 get rifles archmage ( if gargs ) paladin if ( fiends ) bloodmage ( if mass t2 ) first sorcs + priests , buy 3 ivory towers go creep nearest gold mine build 3 towers super fast expo go creep until 3 3 and get lots of units , mb even a workshop and go siege his base

[Arbalest]

human vs.... guide part I : Human
1 Introduction



Because the human race isn't the best for harassment, you won't need a arcane tower. I would recommend the Std. eckl. Arcane Tower Build Order. Only when you are on T2, start to build 2 arcane tower in your base.

Strategy

1-T2 Power

While using this strategy, you have to overrun your enemy with a greater army to end the game or to minimize hi army so much, that you can take easily an expansion. An other way of this strategy is, to take an expansion and defend this with your whole army. Choosing this way, you get the advantage of the expansions.
You can also “punish” your enemy, if the took a fast expansion, with your advantage of your hero. While he is running with footmen and one hero at the map, you can end the game with two heroes and mass casters(But with this strategy, you need at least one counter expand)

Advantages:

-offensive strategy (makes fun)
-overrunning of the enemy
-effective on little maps with a tavern
-has a chance against all other strategy

Disadvantage:

-bad counter chance against other strategies in late game
-bad in late game, when your enemy has more expansions
-you need a lot of skill for perfect timing

Execution:

Early Game:

In the early game you should concentrate on creeping. An important thing is the scouting. So scout people, scout for your life. When you can harras your enemy, while he is taking an expansion, the game is to 90% over for him. When he get an expansion, harras his peonline with a splitted army(one to peonline in mainbase and one to peonline at the expand). When you find a lightning shield and you don't play in an international league cw, use it on a WE and go with that to a peonline. Repeat it with a second, then some peasants should be dead.

Middle and Late Game:

Expansion or not when you are at T2 build instantly 2 arcane sanctuaries in your base and start with the production. When you get T2, you have to choice between attacking your enemy or taking an expansion (when you have good macro, make both).
When you take an expansion, you have to scout all the time of the rest of the game and produce counter units. The game will be decided on the skill.
When you attack your enemy, you can have some luck and overrun him. With casters and 2 heroes, your enemy with only one hero and footmens has no chance to survive.

2-T3 Power

This is a more defensive gameplay. You avoid all the fights, until you are T3. But when you get to T3 without problems, you have a perfect army of 3 heroes, priests and knights. This strategy is more for beginners, but will work also against skilled enemys.

Advantages:
-perfect foundation group of knights and priests, easily to handle
-easily playable, also from noobs
-perfect for big maps
-fast change of your units for a easy counter army against your enemy

Disadvantage:
-you lose more or less 100%, when your enemy play with a fast expand

Execution:

Early Game:
In this strategy, you should use the Std. incl. Arcane Tower or the Fast Tech incl. Arcane Tower Build Order. Depending, if you use militia creep or not. Avoid all fights!!!

Middle and Late Game:
When you get on T2, scout instantly for an expansion of your enemy, when you don’t do it already. If you find one, you can write “gg” and leave or try to win. Then you have to go on like in “T2 Power”.
Else, get as fast as you can a MK and build a arcane sanctuary. Get 5 priests and upgrade them. When you have enough resources, go to T3. While you are on T2, go on with creeping or look at the Naturals for an expand of the enemy. But don't lose your army, let the expansion stay, if you see, that you won't get it. When you know, that he has an expansion, try to get an counter expansion.
When you get T3, get an Paladin and creep him as fast as you can to level 2. Let your other heroes stay out of the creep, that the Paladin get all XP. Also get the T3 upgrade for the priests. When you have the first knights, the fight begins. Then, it is all up to you, harras the enemy as good as you can and destroy his base. And if the enemy has a better army, it isn't any longer a problem, on T3 with an expansion, you can get fast enough a counter army.


3-Fast Exe

This is a risky strategy. If you get harrased, while you creep the natural, it can be over very fast. So don't play this in small maps or when you know, that your enemy is at close position.

Advantages:
-When you get the expansion, you get a very big advantage and the win should be for sure

Disadvantage:
-When you get harrased, it´s more or less over
-Late tech, risk of being overrunned at T2

Execution:

Early Game:
You can choose, which build order you choose, there isn’t a difference at all at this strategy, because you can use the militia creep with all. Before you start with the creep, scout, if the enemy takes also a fast expansion. But more to this later.
When you scout enough, start the militia creep and build the townhall as fast as you can. When the enemy takes now a fast expansion, too, try to kick that. When not, stay at your own expansion and defend it. After that, go on with normal creepment.

Middle and Late Game:
When your enemy doesn't took a fast expansion and when he isn't a noob, he will start a T2 push. This will be difficult, because he has a better army then you. But when you can defend your base, you have won the game. After the push, you should reach T2, too, and with the resource advantage, you shouldn't have any problem with a counter army any longer. What you make now, depends on the game. There, the real counter game begins.

[MiZiGe]

I enjoy reading these guides more and more - I think I will even try to play a game here although:

humans VS orcs
"Lately Orcs have been using the Blademaster"
hello? most W3 playzors are not very well known for their innovative approaches to gaming I did not know Orcs had any other hero then BM, cause I only obs.games...

PS: ofc. casters are great VS orcs.
Here is realistic footage of me attacking a orc village last weekend:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DApyxt1Ttf0
you do not need a strategy, you just grill one ogre, and the rest comes running into the flame, because they smell the meat.

[Arbalest]

glad i could help u mizige ,i'll watch this video thx for the hint )))

[TBK.Goldy]

Weavel your nonsense post has been deleted. Learn to respect other members and try to contribute to our community, or don't come here to comment stupid immature things. Arbalest copied some parts of the strategy with naming where he got them from... but also he included his own experience, so he was awarded by rep points for his work and explanation of certain gameplay points.

You on the other hand have been awarded by 15 points of infraction points that will expire after some time. Think before you post next time.

[Arbalest]

human vs.... guide part II : undead



global ideas:

Match up maps: EI,TS and 1on1 maps
Match up races:UD
First hero: PAL
Hero ability:1.Holy Light -2.Divine Shield -3.Holy Light -4.Divine Shield -5.Holy Light
Build order:Altar - Barracks -Lumber Mill -another base -Shop -Blacksmith -Workshop -Gryphon Aviary.
Main units:Siege Engine,Flying Machine,Knight,Gryphon Rider.

Tactic processes:

First stage:

Four peasents mine gold,one build Altar this same time build more peasents,the 6th peasent build Farm,the 7th build Barracks,the 8th build Farm,the 9th collect gold,then 10 -13 peasents harvest timber ,then buid 5 - 6 Footman.

Quickly remove the creeps guarding Mercenary Camps or Goblin Laboratory,as PAL out of the Altar.If so,PAL should be level 2.You could consider to buy mercenary to compare with UD.When UD run away,lead your Footman and Militia to creat another gold mine.Now PAL must be level 3,if not creeps some little creeps to reach it.
It is time to build Lumber Mill at main base,if lumber is not enough for the Militia creeping,you could by a Goblin Shredder if the map have Goblin Laboratory.

Middle stage:

This stages goal is defend main base and the second base.So build 3-4 tower is necessary,remember to upgrade a Arcane Tower and others is to Guard Tower.UD player must be constant harassmenting at the same time so hold out till Tower and second base is finished.When Tower and base is over,build shop at main base or your second base,upgrade level 1 city defense at Lumber Mill,and tech to tier 2.

Level 3 PAL is shocking for UD,as he armed with Boots of Speed,Potion of Invisibility and Staff of Teleportation.Use Potion of Invisibility sneaking into UD main base to kill Acolytes.You have level 2 Holy Light,cheers for this,ahahah.Kill Ghouls is a good idear too.As PAL harassing,reaching to tier 2,build your Blacksmith,and go on building Towers at main base and second base till you have 7-9 towers.You always have towers so UD harass you is not easy.

Development stage:

At Middle stage,If UD defense of his base you can use Divine Shield or Staff of Teleportation till have enough Mana.Lets return to heal up and do those again and again.When reached to tier 2 don't hesitate to upgrade tier 3 and summon second hero MK (Mountain King).

PAL and MK two-Line action AL always harass and Mk with several units to creep.At the half of reaching tier 3,put down two or three Workshop and output Siege Engine or Flying Machine,the same time upgrade Black Gunpowder to level 3.Once you have 3 Siege Engine upgrade Barrage as soon as possible.Upgrade level 3 city defense when you tech to tier 3.Ok lets build more and more Siege Engine till have 6-7.

Fighting in the late

Now lets look your army,6-7 Siege Engines or two group of Flying Machine.If your elementary untis is less you can bulid Knight and Gryphon Rider.but it is doesn't matter for the whole army.YOU! have level 3 attack and level 3 defense Siege Engine.Order them to destroy UD's main base.GG!

It is for sure that we have not enough lumber for we use 2-3 Workshop.So let your main base and second base all have Lumber Mill and upgrade Lumber Harvesting and at least

8 peasents to harvest lumber.If the map have Goblin Laboratory it is a good idear to buy a Goblin Shredder.

hints to consider :

1.Don't let your PAL drop dead , I've rarely seen a hu won a game while pal is dead
2.a scout is necessary to evoid a sudden mass of units wyrns,destroyer (preference arcane tower).
3. i saw some adding blood mage as 3th hero it works too, u just have to combine heroes, items to cover all the 3.
thats it thx for reading and gl hf to all.

[Arbalest]

Strategy

1- Rifle Caster

Advantages:
-easy to learn
-can be played against every strategy of the orc

Disadvantage:
-standard strategy, every orc knows that and knows how to counter that

Execution:

Early Game:
Like you read in the section Build Order, you have to build an arcane tower. When you get 5-6 footmens, build a blacksmith and start with rifles. When you scout and see, that the orc tech without barrack on T2, try to kick as many burrows as you can and harras all the time. Else creep as much as you can.

Middle and Late Game:
On T2, get the upgrade for your rifles and build a arcane sanctuary. Get also a MK or a BeM. Alternatively you can play with a Naga, too. On T2, you should have an advantage(the orc has normaly only grunts+catas+shamans). When you see, that the orc focus a rifle, sent him instantly a little back, also when he has full hp. Focus with the stun of the MK then a grunt after an other one. When the first sorcs get out of the sanctuary, go on with harassment. When you see, that the orc go on T3, make the same and make yourself ready to get fast air. When he stay on T2, go on with rifle and caster.
Spellbreaker can be useful in this strategy, too, when the orc go on T3 with docs and Tauren. But 3-4 should be more then enough.

2-Mass Summons

Advantages:
-in early and lategame good

Disadvantage:
-bad against dispel
-only on tavern maps
-you need a lot of micro

Execution:

Early Game:
This is a defensive strategy. Creep your AM to a high level and avoid fights. Build only footmen and get as fast as you can to T2. An option to creepment is, to tech defend for your footmen and kick the burrows of the orc. That will slow down the macro of the orc.

Middle and Late Game:
On T2, build instantly 2 arcane sanctuaries and get a BeM at the tavern. Your AM should be at level 3. When he is, start an attack. Try to kick the spirit lodge, that the orc get late shamans/SW. After that, build a blacksmith and produce the first sorcs and priests. Later, when you have 2-3 rifles and some casters, attack the orc again. When you win the fight, the game should be over, when not, go to T3 and make knights or air, depending on the strategy of the orc.

3-Air Tech

Advantages:
-90% of all orcs can't counter that
-at a specific point, it isn't stoppable and when the orc doesn't left already,

Disadvantage:
-delicately against a towerrush
-bad on little maps
-bad against fast expansion of an orc

Execution:

Early Game:
And an other defensive strategy. I don't think, that I have to write something. Else go and read the Early Game of the Mass Summons.

Middle and Late Game:
Don't stay a second on T2 (only when you lost militias, reproduce them as fast as you can) and go to T3. As a second hero, you can use a MK, BeM and as an exception - you can also choose a Paladin. Build, while you go on T3, two gryphonaeries. When you get 4 gryphons, start the harassment at the orc and don't stop it. The game should be over now.
When the enemy try to get bats, go on with harassment. Force the orc to use his townportal again and again, that he waste money. And avoid fights with the bats.

A little result:
This strategy is easily to counter for the orcs, but 90% don't do that and you can get to level 40 or so with that strategy.

4- Fast Expansion :

Advantages:
-When you survive the early game, you won to 99,99999999999%

Disadvantage:
-only useful at lost temple
-a little mistake and you can leave the game even without a fight. You have to play with 150%
-when the orc finds a lightning shield, yeah, you can leave, too, or hope, that he is a noob.

Execution:

Early Game:
Build Order, I already said… Scouting!!! When the orc is at close position. Don't use this strategy any longer. Build as fast as you can at least 2 towers at your base and expansion. Get, when you have enough resources, to T2 and build without a break on T1 footmen, that u won't get overrunned on T2.

Middle and Late Game:
On T2, you can build instantly 3 gryphonaeries and a MK. Upgrade, while you go on T3, armor and damage of your gryphons. The late game on T3 shouldn't be a problem. You have more then enough gold to produce counter units.

5-Tips :

-Always buy a townportal
-Lightning shield is your worsest enemy! Dispel.
-Grunts are better then footmen, try to avoid a fight
-When the orc starts a towerrush, build on towers on your base, they are as good as the tower of the orc.

coming up part IV : Night Elf.

[Arbalest]

human vs.... guide part III : Night Elf :

Advantages:
-when you learned this strategy, it is easy to win against Nightelf

Disadvantages:
-only one mistake can end in a lose
-hard to play

Execution:

Early Game:
In the early game, try to avoid a fight. When you creep, the Nightelf trys to creepjack you with his Demonhunter. But when you get back with your AM always and focus with your footies the Demonhunter, it should't be a problem. An attack of the army is unnormaly, so don't worry of that.

Middle and Late Game:
At T2, the Nightelf will normaly make a go on your base with DH+Naga, go back in your base and wait, until you get your MK. When he is out, attack with your footmen and use also your wood-peasants as militia. To defend your base is hard, but when you survive, the game becomes earlier. Build in fast-build two arcane sanctuaries. After that go, it is time to expand. Buy 3 pocket tower and creep a Natural. Build the townhall in fast-build with 2-3 militias and upgrade instantly your towers at your expansion. The Nightelf will try to kick your expand, but with first sorcs and maybe priest, you should defend your expansion good. After you got 3-4 sorcs and priests, build 6-8 spellbreaker. Reskill your AM to Blizzard and Aura, WE are useless now. When you see, that your enemy recruit mass dryads, build also 2-3 mortars.

1-Advantages:
-Mass ressources

2-Disadvantages:
-risk of being rushed in early game
-late tech

3-Execution:

Early Game:
The buildorder is the "2.2 Std. incl. Arcane Tower". Add also a lumbermill as fast as you can to your base. When you have enough peasants to creep the Natural, do it. But you can also scout for the enemy peon/aco/wisp/peasant and wait, when he go away, that the enemy doesn't see you creep. When the militias turn to peasants, build isntantly at least 4 towers at your expand. Wait until one tower finished with your army at the expansion. Then go on normaly. I would recommend, to build 4-5 towers at your own base, too.


Middle and Late Game:
While you tech, the Nightelf will make a go. At the latest now the enemy will know, that you took an expansion. But when you builded towers at your bases, the Nightelf has to go back, because you have an advantage of the tower. After the Nightelf found the expansion, he will try to kick it. So get ready to TP there instantly. After you defend your two bases, try to get an army as fast as you can. The Nightelf will tech on bears, and then, all towers of you are useless, when you have only some footmen. After you survived to this point, the game will continue like the game in the NoFeMaps...


4-Tips
-Make a ring Formation. MK first, spellbreaker in the second row in a bow and at least your AM, sorcs, priests and when he has mass dryads, your mortar.
-The MK use normaly only clapps at the bears, but when you see the Demonhunter in your ring formation at the center, bolt him and try to kick him.
-Buy always a healscroll, when your formation break, use it and try to resist, else go back.
II:Human vs ... global view :

1-Micro


1.1: Early Game

The early game is the hardest for the Human. The footmen wo't survive for long against grunts, fiends or huntz. When you see, that the enemy focus one unit, select this footmen and send him 3-4 blocks back. But don't send him back to your base, when he has more then enough hitpoints to fight. So the most important for the Human player is, to send units as fast as you can back.

1.2 Middle Game:

In the middle game, the Area of Effect, for example the shockwave of the tauren chieftain, will cause some problems for the Human army. Buy always at T2 a healscroll, to balance the lose of the hitpoints.
But the healscroll isn't the onliest thing, which help at micro. At T2, you get your first caster. The priests can heal in one second 25 hitpoints of a unit, and as long as you haven't inner fire ready, use this to heal units while the fight. After few seconds, the unit is ready to fight again. That can help a lot. THe sorcs will make it harder for the orc with her first spell. But we will look at the second spell, the invisibility. With this spell, you can micro out your units easily without losing them. You can also help a hero out, who is surrounded and is then invisibility. When the enemy hasn't dust, he has no other choice to move.

1.3: Late Game

The late game is easy for the Human. Now you can build units with high hitpoints, which make the micro easier. But that doesn't mean, that you can relax. You ahve to go on like in the early and middle game, but now with full upgraded units and caster.
An other help is the staff you can buy at the Human shop at T3. He will send your low hitpoint units instantly back. An other help is your third hero, the paladin. When you don't got him at T2, at T3 you have to buy him. He can heal your heros and single units fast and easily and with the aura of the AM constantly.

1.4 : Selfkill:

Micro doesn't mean, that you have to save all your units. When you see a footmen with 10 hitpoints, hunted by a Blademaster os someone else, kill the footmen on your own. Micro means, that your enemy shouldn't get XP, to avoid high level heroes. But don't forget to kill your footmen with a high level unit, when you kill the 10 hitpoint footmen with a 5 hitpoint footmen, there wouldn't be any difference. Try to use always your AM, with him it is easy.

[Slayzer]

Nice guides, thanks for writing them down, however I have a hard time countering Far Seer orc, which is getting more and more popular is the MK first hero good idea against early harrasment?

[DRG-]

MK is a powerfull hero at lvl 6 at least, he is so imba with some proper items. It would be a nice counter against fs.