Strategy Requests

[Arbalest]

if anyone wanna some strategy in a specific situation just write a request here i'll be more then happy to help you , just make sure you read the others strategy guides i wrote so it won't be a double request and regards

[TBK.Goldy]

Ok, I have a question.

UD vs ORC

ORC is using either BM SH, or BM TC, or FS TC.

I (not me, imaginary me ) am a middle skilled UD player.

I know about the part DK LICH (armor) ... but I want to take a third hero.

Now I know DR (silence) is the best. But I am not skilled enough to use coil nova silence all in 3s.

So the question is; -What is the third hero I can take (preferably a tavern hero) to overpower an Orc army in a same food duel, or even if the food is under 50 for me to avoid upkeep?

(My choice is pitlord with howl)


*And please dont write -go wyrms, cuz I (imaginary me) prefer ground combat hand to hand.......


like real men.

[Arbalest]

oki goldy

as you said the dark ranger sounds like the best choice , pitlord to sounds good
silence the sh focus bm or silence bm himself and go nuke , or gow with pitlord howl ye looks fine but i think they both kinda used heroes , the thing about these 2 is that they use they've been used for a long time personally i get happy when i see them and i say (ah nice he did something i know )
both of these heroes got used and i bet you many will smile seeing them and they can say i can beat this guy with my eyes closed, both of them used aoe(area of effect) so you can guess that the orc spirit walker won't be affected he'll disppell it and u came out of this empty handed he'll dispell the zone anyway for frost armor for skeletons etc, so adding another effect he'll wipe out with 1 blow is pretty useless thing, i'm not a pro ud but i think tinker as a 3th hero would be a good choice or even the alchemist if i remember well his bomb can't be dispelled and beside he's got a good melee attack, i won't get in the details i bet you all get the picture the second i mentioned them, remain the balance of armies, every body know the blind timing in orcs is between 40 and 50 population, he stops at 40 for sometime and save the rest for the beastiary etc, and i don't think it's something new ,just focus at that time , get some borrows and get back ,if he's good ,then jsut get back you already delayed his upgrate long enough, this is normally when you strike, now about defense , u know ud get his dk to get out a little late now that's kinda a disadvantage , so if the orc push up with a twr rush or even a mass grunts , with some good micro its heading for a (gg) ,so it's up to you get your dk first start with ghouls first then switch to fiends at t2 that's your business, you know where and when to strike, you know the where you need some defense it's up to you now, oki i hope tis help, if you got some others i'll answer them gladly and see you

[Sacred_Zd]

Why buying third hero at all ?? If you really want to play UD vs ORC game with 3 heroes than I suggest pitlord as well. Depending on what army orc has... howl of terror is really usefull and rain of fire combined with fiends web kills wind raiders easily. In addition, as pitlord is undead, you can heal him with coil, unlike other tavern heroes (except DR).

[mansnicks]

Why don't UD players use banshees vs orc lately? They are way stronger than they look like. just look at the orc army and you will see "miss miss miss miss miss miss". spirit walkers can't dispell so much as banshees can cast. so why are banshees so unpopular? For me - when i play orc and i see enemy uses banshees then in my head sounds "ohh fuck..."

------------------------
Edit: I don't know where to post this [here or in BootCamp] but i will just post it here..
I have really hard times when I play elf and I face orc who is attacking me at the start of the game. Ok, i can close the base so that he can't kill my wisps and cancel my T2 buildings while they are building. But that doesn't matter because if he attacks me at the start I just can't do anything against it and loose instantly.
Here is an example replay - what could I have done there against him?

[TBK.Goldy]

banshees are great vs lets say grunts... but this is where their power stops... i'm an undead player since 2006 and i played alot of banshee vs orc. Just to tell you several things... banshees suck vs wind riders, they last 2s even with the curse on wind riders. The most danger banshees possess is - POSSESSION... in a battle its important only to possess 3-4 units successfully. The orc will retreat, and then you should re-hit his base and it's gg then.

To recapitulate, banshees are great... but imo their main power is possession, then the antimagic shell. The curse is a "perk" for which you go once you get a full complemented army (you cant go mass casters with ud like with human), and any selfrespecting orc will attack you every 5 mins so you will be pumping more and more units, and totally disregard banshees.

I hope you get my point. Didn't see the replay, will see it later prolly.

[Arbalest]

oki i saw your replay, at the begining of the game the elfs are kinda weak,here the idea of that push, since the dh and bm have equal powers at low lvl so the the orc will try to break that balance by buying some items ,which in the end it's gonna be like this bm vs dh (with items) it wil head to bm vitory and grunts vs archers, sounds like it's heading for a gg, well here you don't have to overpower him just survive ,mostly you gonna need to retreat your archers inside your base and pick yourself a target ,you wanna focus grunt first or bm first just focus 1 unit, and keep in mind to retreat your dh near your buiding so your shop or your aow will help you with some hits, do not play rambo if he focus your dh with bm + grunt retreat don't get hit, (no useless moves) anyway by now you should have updated to t2, normally you got a wisp near the tavern get your 2nd hero and it's your turn to push up now
that's it i hope i helped u

[mansnicks]

I must:
retreat, no rambo acting, try to get help for hits from shop/aow, try to survive and not to kill all units.
all clear

[Arbalest]

I must:
retreat, no rambo acting, try to get help for hits from shop/aow, try to survive and not to kill all units.
all clear

glad to hear that

[Sacred_Zd]

Better make hunters instead of archers than orc can easily lick your ball sack early game, late as well.
Make one hunter, protector if you think needed, than upgrade.
Number of hunters depends on how many grunts orc has, don't make more than 4.
Making hunters hall also brings an option to tower rush your opponent, as you can build protectors.
If you think blade master is pain in the ass, for second hero take beast master with owl and pig. Owl has true sight making blade master useless.
But if you encounter some skilled orc player, nothing would help you.

[Akhe]

Hey, I have question (it's easy one since i'm noob): How can I, in the very first minute in the game, build, create (unit type and count), order and ULTRA MEGA build fast with workers, I'm non-experienced and dont hotkey or something... do I must learn it?

[TBK.Goldy]

Pretty much yes. When I start playing (and I'm not pro but average player), I play all by hotkeys.

Like this; I'm undead (I know this by heart)

game starts;

I make 2 acolytes (click necropolis and press C 2x)

when making ghouls press G,
fiends F

making altar, select acolyte then B+A (build button, then Altar)

BV = graveyard
BC = crypt
.
.
.
.

later i select my army and hotkey it to 3 (ctrl+3), later on clicking on 3 -selects my army.

I mark 1 as my crypt, when I roam the map and am away from the base, and I want to make another fiend, I press 1+F and thats it, dont have to look in base at all, and when you rally point your crypt or barracks to your hero the new unit will walk to them....

[Sacred_Zd]

Hey, I have question (it's easy one since i'm noob): How can I, in the very first minute in the game, build, create (unit type and count), order and ULTRA MEGA build fast with workers, I'm non-experienced and dont hotkey or something... do I must learn it?

Learning hotkeys is not as easy as it may sound. Depending on what race you're playing with, there are lots of hotkeys to memorize. Though some hotkeys are shared for all races.
It is much easier in the beginning if you concentrate on just single race to play.

For all I can say... I am not using hotkeys for building structures and training units, I have never considered it needed and I'm really lazy to learn, most important thing is to have buildings placed under a control and if you're fast enough using the mice... there shouldn't be any problems fast creating an army, well not as fast as using hk but you won't be far behind.

But I strongly suggest you to learn heroes spells hotkeys, and use ''a'' for attack and ''m'' for surrounding an enemy units. This is in my own oppinion probably the only thing miliseconds are VERY important especially concerning heroes abilities.

[mansnicks]

Learning hotkeys is not as easy as it may sound. Depending on what race you're playing with, there are lots of hotkeys to memorize. Though some hotkeys are shared for all races.
It is much easier in the beginning if you concentrate on just single race to play.

For all I can say... I am not using hotkeys for building structures and training units, I have never considered it needed and I'm really lazy to learn, most important thing is to have buildings placed under a control and if you're fast enough using the mice... there shouldn't be any problems fast creating an army, well not as fast as using hk but you won't be far behind.

But I strongly suggest you to learn heroes spells hotkeys, and use ''a'' for attack and ''m'' for surrounding an enemy units. This is in my own oppinion probably the only thing miliseconds are VERY important especially concerning heroes abilities.

ehh. i play random and with standart hotkeys and it was kinda easy for me to learn all hotkeys [those who i need] for all races. imo it isn't really hard
----
I strongly recommend for Akhetaton to download somewhere "WarKeys". Because:
1. It's easier to remember the hotkeys you added than the standart ones
2. It would be more comfortable to change some hotkeys [such as Lich novas N or build peon P] to hotkeys like Q W E
I know that many people change the "Move" hotkey from M to F just for easier surround. And many change their hero spells to QWER

[Spork]

@ goldy try to play t2 push fiends and lich, u can pick and tower rush, but not needed, just a bit micro and u can win any orc @ xpam easy