Ud>>>Hum or Hum>>>Ud ???

[Demonhide_PT]

well, tell here, what strats u use vs undead, or if ud player, what u use to play vs hum.

for now, my question is how can human win undead when he has good micro, statues, dk/lich/cl 2 destroyers and 2 abominations

[Terrorboy]

AM+ strong MK, rifles 2/2 and adept priests is enough:) About advantages, it,s depend on maps IMO. Still it's the hardest matchup for me :( If you establish succesfully expo in early game, you should have no problems:)

[Demonhide_PT]

i heard that a good way to counter undead nuke is to nuke with pala + MK

[Terrorboy]

Well I sometimes add pall at 3rd.....pall+MK=no mana, also UD can do antimagic shield;) watch gosu replays and u will see.....

[Arie-]

hu > ud by any means (equal micro), because its very hard to keep the pressure all the time and when u go home and slow down for a bit its gg cause hu has an expo. Any time playing vs hu, ud has to remember this: never ease up with his management and always tease him or else you will be outmassed. This, btw, goes for ne too. For orc later.

Have u recognized that ud is the only race that doesnt try to expand when they have the advantage? The fragility of the expo doesnt let that. Thats why ud guys have to focus on the army swiftness and momental strengths such as the hero advantage and frenzy ghouls.

One tip from me, hu players, never TP to a town hall near an ud attacker cause its gg right there, just try to tp further away and spread out, cause ud heroes > hu army when in a pack.

My 2 cents -.-

[Sky][RunneR-]

well guys by my experience that i have from this game and from the games that i played vs human now i think that UD is a little bit imbalanced vs hum with the destroyers abos etc.................
however i dont think that humans are not imbalanced cuz if you let them make expo,and their freeky tactics vs UD (mass dragonhawks>des and gryphons>abos or mass rifles>des) huh then UD is in big trouble cuz the des. are the main thing that UD is protected by the imba human casters and the 45 dmg water elementals:rolleyes:

whatever if the UD are imba for Hum, then Hum are imba for NE,NE is imba for UD and what about ORC (dont wanna talk about >700 hp warrior for 1 army-huh thats imba 100%):mad:

[sakky]

human vs UD. main thing is to stop UD form ausing u while ghoul creeping. when u see DK going too pushy, u get to his naturla place to creep and beat the hell out of ghouls which are probably ther ecreeping. or u visit his base to make him upgrading tower. if he already did that, u pull your weak foot being atacked by DK and focus DK to hurt him. we ll do it few times adn stop, unitl reaching tier2. and u can get rifles and MK. and casters coming ofc. AND! tere si the main part. u try to fast exp to beat UD by mass of units, UD goes tier 3 to beat u with stronger and easier to control army + stronger RPG spell heroes. u must control rifles adn casters better than him controling ghouls too, cause most of UD win u with heores remain only of thier army (and skeletons ofcourse, raised form theri and your dead units). most important thing for human is NOT TO LOSS MK!!! and to pull back as much as possible rifles. soem people give lvl 2 MK in exchange for 5 ghouls. yes, it would be good against other races, but against UD u made **** by that.

afterall, who fears human rifles at all by themselves? everyone is feared by damage/stun of MK on higher levels. and i beated many of my games by getting him on lvl 3 and facing enemy then.

about NE. i only can say that u wont stop god elf player in teching to bears in turtle or gnol wood with humans. belive me. he doesnt have to be beter or gosu, just an average, its prooven that u must mass army and do other stuff. otherwise why u can see human players on wcreplys.com are allowing elf to tech bears in twisted meadows, turtle, or gw? for elf being gosu? those guys are all gosu. and u can see some of average games too by average plyers after the tour.

oh, btw, main thing what protects whole UD army is DK. he heals lich, hero with such destructive spell which can kill half of human army by casting nova few times. thats the point of it. and destos are just coverage for being heavy air+ anticasters, which makes it hard time to face UD heroes with melee too (cause melee units kill heores better).

[sakky]

dont forget why UD hereos are imba against any races:
main advantage in w3 is in player's capability to pull units back. massed ranged is capable to beat melee for that. but AoE spells also become too strong against mass ranged too, dealing massive damage. why UD heroes are the "bad guys mainly"? their combo makes it hard to attack their base, tell me who escaped form UD base w/o teleport even if he is stronger, to heal army? noone, UD are fast, and n00bian tower makes it easy to nuke units around. oh yes, nova and coil are so well known abuse of hit and run by heroes. NO MELEE ARMY SHOULD BE HIT AND RUN!!! is it true? well thats why u beat militia so easy with orc, getting free exp for that. thats why UD is good while time goes on more and more. nuking enemy units one by one. being stronger and stronger while enemy is wasting his resources.

[Demonhide_PT]

well, i... finally could finish to read that :( man, sakky, you are a word abuser!!! im gonna report u:D :p

btw tx;)

[_spawn_]

I think that ud>>>>hum coz ive saw some replays with hum & they play withrifleman & if u know how to use a strategy of mine(dunno if its mine)with cl.....riflemans are unusefull!!!

[Demonhide_PT]

eehhh?

[Arie-]

Originally posted by _spawn_
I think that ud>>>>hum coz ive saw some replays with hum & they play withrifleman & if u know how to use a strategy of mine(dunno if its mine)with cl.....riflemans are unusefull!!! i think that hu >> ud cause my mom said it oO

[Terrorboy]

mass air+tanks=imba funny strategy vs UD^^ It not used becoz very expensive and it goes late, but imba:D

[sakky]

he, no worry. if u can control amry pretty good, rifles and casters are very strong. not strong to have some advantage, but enough to give u fair matchup in a way. if UD gets levels, he s gonna rip your army up with heroes only. ofcurse, when game moves on, u can get few supporting units, like 2 knights to just make it harder to get rifles by abos, and few hawks to crack in UD base if u face him closing himself and massing tier3. also paladin as third is good solution if u got your heroes on a bit bigger levels. ofcourse, dont go paladin if your MK is still lvl 1.
ofcourse, gryphons are pretty known to get in most of average games. main reason why people use them is coz they are easy to control+ hard damage units.

one hint, UD is weaker than human until he gets tier2 lich. when lich comes, its crappy for human to face UD at those moments, u ll find out why. because nova shoot and coil and run. u MUST have counter defence against it. thats why u need to get MK and get him evel, coz UD will try to kill him in battle in most of cases... they will try. belive me.

[becks[07]]

hmm i have some comments to say mk lvl 3>>owns any army goul u will have and generally i would have taken his clap as more effective than nove vs gouls and i guess its quite clear

about the imba dk u saying,ill just ask one quiz,whats is the harder to kill dk lvl5,mk lvl3 or tc lvl3?-_-

btw i guess tanks with thier upgrade to hit air very effectiv and can also works as meat shield ;P

priests>>skelton

any game i win vs human i win with my heros not with army thats a fact that undead heros combo r better than any other races combo thats why mostly undead's goes 3 heros

and about my game i rarly use abo's,and i manage to win with gouls and fiends,dest if needed

also u come to my base to attack me there u r going to sucide :D

[FrostMoon]

I think if humn have exp and humn is in tier 2or3 no race can win humn.(they can have same exp uprg etc etc).ABout destroyers no1 doesnt make it but if destroyers are so much like 4-5 i gonna make tanks.Best anti air in humn.About abominations knights can get them.Abo can have so much hp but armor is more important.Knight begins with 5armor.What was it mean?Ur damages always reduced from 5armor.But best think which ud have Vs humns are heroes.lich and dred lord or cryp lord can kill fastly humn armies.(especially casters).no1 should not make necro Vs humn.I think only orc>humn in w3

[Who_Am_I]

UD base defence imba. Over and out.

[Demonhide_PT]

bleagh, UD defence stinks hard! they have high hp regen/freezin towers/thight architecture and lumberjacks that work as soldiers! who gets in with the wrong army, may not get out :P - anyway, i have my ways to make the "ants" come out of the hive :P mortars, wich are also usefull if they go on mass ghouls or even to abominations, just upgrade the fragmentation shards

the true imba are the statues and the heros, IMO

[sakky]

UD base defence makes u being forced to teleport out. they move fast, and if UD player is even half skilled, he just points nerubian tower on one unit, then when he see coil can kill it, just shoot. belive me, u cant pull anything from there if UD is good, and UD can devastate your army with much weaker army. thats really stinky. i myself try to avoid to run into UD base especially. many games are lost by thinking its over already. i myself lost lots of games that way, and learned lesson. special example of that situation is UD base, where most of those "already won" games are lost for all races. not only human.

[Demonhide_PT]

i only attack ud's base when i have mortars or tanks:P

[Terrorboy]

wich are also usefull if they go on mass ghouls or even to abominations, just upgrade the fragmentation shards fragmentation shards does full damge only vs no/medium armored units:)so it doesnt work vs ghouls/abominations;) IMO mortars sux vs undead becoz they could be nuke:( (live-low hit points units)

[Demonhide_PT]

hhmm, siege attack does reduced damage to heroes and medium armour i think, gives extra damage to siege/unarmoured and full damage to light/heavy, so i still think that mortars are good vs ghouls because with frag shards, the splash gets bigger and only does reduced damage to hero armor

[LordAlucard]

Trying to beat UD in his base is pointless...
Make and exp and prevent UD from getting one. GG

[Terrorboy]

the splash gets bigger I told you once again: this effect works only vs medium/unarmored units, doesnt work vs heavy armor......read upgrade info 1st.....ask others if you no belive;) increase ranged attack, if u wanna do bigger damage vs heavy armor units, but still magic attack is best solution:o

[Demonhide_PT]

hey, splash is for all units, or even for all buildings! just instead of attack, press attack land! and all those ghouls will be dead in a few secs, cuz that plash works very well vs the healing of statues, or the vampiric aura, even both, cuz its a gr8 radius

try compare the radius of mortars, with the radius of demolishers/meat wagons/glaive throwers!

really, mortars have the lowest damage of all siege and the lowest HP, but they have their advantage too, like you can heal a mortar, bloodlust him, etc... and most of all: the attack radius is like 2x - 3x

[Terrorboy]

I think NE katapults have weaker damage(but no sure). I like mortars but use them rarely becoz human need special buildings to produce mortars:( All races produce katapults from barracks etc., only human not:( And they should do spellbreakers 3-4 heavy armor in 1.18, I will be very happy:D

[Demonhide_PT]

lolz, heavy armour in spell breaker = no sense:D cuz they are imune to magic
btw, i think that heavy armour are one of the crappiest armours in the game, cuz they dont reduce nothing, but the most crappy armour is surely unarmoured, cuz it takes damage of siege and piercing and reduce nothing :mad: i think that medium armour is a really good armour cuz it reduces a lot of things, like siege/magic/piercing, and only takes extra damage of normal attack ( the most popular )

anyway, the unit i think is more overpowered in this game, is by far the sheeps and the pigs :D :D they have 15 HP!!! and when u have time, watch closely how the critter breathes:D it gets 2x size:D :D like a baloon

[Terrorboy]

Heavy armor is one of best in game, it dont takes any extra damage, only problem is magic attack. But breakers are immune to magic so no problem.....SB often fights in 1 line vs melee units and heavy armor for them will be really nice:D At least they are melee units like footmans or knights;)

[Demonhide_PT]

bah, heavy sux, it takes 100% damage (counting as the quantity of 0) from everything, and it even takes 133% damage (i think) from magic =s

IMO best armours are 1º Divine (ofc)/2ºfortified/3ºHero/4ºmedium

devine= reduce all except chaos
fortified= 133% siege 100%chaos50%normal/piercing/magic/hero
Hero= 100% chaos/normal/hero 66% piercing/spells/magic/siege
medium= 133% normal 100%spells/hero/chaos 66%piercing/magic/siege


Heavy= 100%siege/normal/piercing/hero/spells/chaos 133%magic

=\

[Who_Am_I]

I think it is much more then 133% that heavy takes from magic. And yeah sure if heavy armor is crap let me see archers and hunts with heavy armor or air with heavy armor that would be a joke. Heavy armor is best of all. YOU CAN COUNTER HEAVY ARMOR ONLY ON TIER3 WITH HEAVY AIR.

[Arie-]

Originally posted by Who_Am_I
I think it is much more then 133% that heavy takes from magic. And yeah sure if heavy armor is crap let me see archers and hunts with heavy armor or air with heavy armor that would be a joke. Heavy armor is best of all. YOU CAN COUNTER HEAVY ARMOR ONLY ON TIER3 WITH HEAVY AIR. u can counter heavy armor with chainwave/fokhaze/blizstrike. u can counter heavy armor with mass dryads and arch dott/riflecaster/gruntraider. u can counter heavy armor with fe/fe/fe. u cant counter fe, u cant counter chainwave/fokhaze/blizstrike.

[sakky]

heavy takes dbl damage form magic. heavy armor is certainly best armor fro melee units, if u think medium is better, then just say it LOL.

btw, fe is countered easily even in lost temple. it doesnt have to be that u make opponent cancel it, but its enough to make opponent getting heavy damage + opponent isnt having lumber (telling about human expo) to upgrade base for long time. human tier1 is suxed, even rifles sux until long rifle upgrade.

n/c to

cant counter fe


should i say smth? LOL. even for LT where, just take human and try to go expo like u think, when opponent gets u exping, figure out what is all problem, even if u get expo...... then u will know about it.

blizzstrike

what, blizzstrike vs ghouls u mean? lol, how much replays? how about coiling to death around, coz there is nothing to make DK being worried pretty much? if u think its easy to kill his fastest moving tank hp + castle armor ass, then go bloodmage, while u ll get owned by nukes. oh yes, that should be a part of "flame strike + breakers will beat UD army". is thats why all humans avoid priests adn rifles?

heavy armor units can be countered with good combo. but why noone mentioned what also goes with heavy armored units? purge on summons (AM WE wasted), heroes?
btw, hunts will never have heavy armor. ppl should just compare them with grunts, and u have answer, cheaper units better affectivity even vs grunts. more? because elf would have bears useless, not useless because they worth nothing, u can beat human with them very very easily, + how available they are. but because of the same reason elf players were going hunts and hunts only, even on tier3, in ROC version. thats also part of "cyclone shouldnt be dispelled" story.
same goes to breakers, because in 1.07 ppl were going breakers instead of knights, so LOL stupid. but actually useful, and imbalanced.

[Demonhide_PT]

Originally posted by Who_Am_I
I think it is much more then 133% that heavy takes from magic. And yeah sure if heavy armor is crap let me see archers and hunts with heavy armor or air with heavy armor that would be a joke. Heavy armor is best of all. YOU CAN COUNTER HEAVY ARMOR ONLY ON TIER3 WITH HEAVY AIR.

1ºok, now imagine gargoyles with medium armour, better no?

2ºi never said that medium armour was good vs melee (normal attack)

3&ordm; imagine what would be of ne's with air units with medium armour? instead of being amplified, the damage would be reduced >.< making air units 100% stronger vs land anti air

[Arie-]

Originally posted by sakky
heavy takes dbl damage form magic. heavy armor is certainly best armor fro melee units, if u think medium is better, then just say it LOL.

btw, fe is countered easily even in lost temple. it doesnt have to be that u make opponent cancel it, but its enough to make opponent getting heavy damage + opponent isnt having lumber (telling about human expo) to upgrade base for long time. human tier1 is suxed, even rifles sux until long rifle upgrade.

n/c to




should i say smth? LOL. even for LT where, just take human and try to go expo like u think, when opponent gets u exping, figure out what is all problem, even if u get expo...... then u will know about it.



what, blizzstrike vs ghouls u mean? lol, how much replays? how about coiling to death around, coz there is nothing to make DK being worried pretty much? if u think its easy to kill his fastest moving tank hp + castle armor ass, then go bloodmage, while u ll get owned by nukes. oh yes, that should be a part of "flame strike + breakers will beat UD army". is thats why all humans avoid priests adn rifles?

heavy armor units can be countered with good combo. but why noone mentioned what also goes with heavy armored units? purge on summons (AM WE wasted), heroes?
btw, hunts will never have heavy armor. ppl should just compare them with grunts, and u have answer, cheaper units better affectivity even vs grunts. more? because elf would have bears useless, not useless because they worth nothing, u can beat human with them very very easily, + how available they are. but because of the same reason elf players were going hunts and hunts only, even on tier3, in ROC version. thats also part of "cyclone shouldnt be dispelled" story.
same goes to breakers, because in 1.07 ppl were going breakers instead of knights, so LOL stupid. but actually useful, and imbalanced. true:(












but im more true.. ~.~.
After i finih playing wow, im going to research a fast necro tech on lt while hu is exping.. goanna see how that works.

[Who_Am_I]

Originally posted by Demonhide_PT
1&ordm;ok, now imagine gargoyles with medium armour, better no?

2&ordm;i never said that medium armour was good vs melee (normal attack)

3&ordm; imagine what would be of ne's with air units with medium armour? instead of being amplified, the damage would be reduced >.< making air units 100% stronger vs land anti air

Well even better for me coz hipos would own them even more than they do now.

[Demonhide_PT]

hhm, k but what about vs orx or human? even vs elf u just add a few fiends with web:D