vanguard on tide or not?

[sscorpion66]

hi all again:)i was wandering if vanguard is good for tide or not.some ppl saying yes cause it stucks with his second skill.some ppl saying not good cause you have 2nd skill.so what is your opinion guys?

[-eXtasY-]

some ppl saying yes cause it stucks with his second skill
Dont trust everyone.
Venguard does NOT stuck with Kraken shell. (It does partly but its so useless so it isn't even worthy to explain it :))

[The_Bogeyman]

Hm... But in the dmg blocking guide it says it stacks 100%, or at least that's what i made out, and guys like u extasy, and keny and berg who really know how to play say that it's a good idea to get vanguard on a tank. So u should stick with 2 bracers instead?

[LifeDrainer[RO]]

if vang is ok for several tanks this does not mean that its good for tide also...so no vang for him

[-eXtasY-]

Hmm i think it isn't explained the best. I will try to do it better.
If you make vanguard and then take kraken shell damage blocking will look like this:

You will have your 65% chance to block 40 damage. If it happens (veng blocks) then Kraken shell wont take effect.
So instead of 28 damage reduce (by kraken) you got 40 (from veng) what makes 12 dmg difference.
If Venguard does not block then Kraken will block those 28 dmg.

So what do you actually get with venguard?
If it blocks damage that would be only 12 more then Kraken reduce, or more simple you will have 65%chance to block 40 dmg and 35% chance to block 28 dmg.
So blocking 68 dmg (40+28) is nothing more then a fairytale ;)

Conclusion: Its almost useless so you can consider it doesn't stack at all since those 12 dmg don't make a real difference...
So yes its much better to get few bracers on leviatan then a vanguard.

[OMGBergrush]

why do you all so persistently write 'stuck' instead of stack?

[sscorpion66]

"With maxed Kraken Shell &
Vanguard, you are roughly reducing (.65*35) + 28 = 50.75 damage per attack. As you gain more
armor, this damage reduction maintains its effectiveness as well."
i just asked cause i read at a guide the above:P.as i can see the most guides you can find at the internet are not good.i have found also some useless guide for pit lord before 2 months,while i was asking about perse.me too at first place were making to him 3 bracers, boots,hot and cuirass or radi after hot or before hot.and blink dagger before hot maybe is a good idea.but when i read about the vanguard on him i confused.so if extacy(i think he is) is 100% sure about what he says then no vanguard.

P.S. can you suggest any site which may have realible guides for heroes?
P.S. the 35 on the equation maybe was the old dmg that vanguard were blocking,so the guide i saw maybe was out of date

[Tito]

If you wanna play him as a tank and you're the only strenght hero in your team, you can take the Kraken Shell and the bonus. He becomes imba boxing doll.

[TBK.Goldy]

early game vanguard is good if you are the "point hero" while attcking and deffing, late game, sell vanguard for heart of tarrasque.

[-eXtasY-]

early game vanguard is good if you are the "point hero" while attcking and deffing, late game, sell vanguard for heart of tarrasque.
Is my post so invisible? I fully explained why is useless to make it and you still insist on it, interesting ;)

[The_Bogeyman]

At dota's official site u can find reliable guides. I thought that if u get kranken then vanguard, yr skill will kick in 1st and block 28 dmg than it will check for vanguard and block 40 more dmg, i didn't know they exclude each other.

[OMGBergrush]

the whole concept of buy something before you take skill became obsolete few versions ago. leviatans kraken shell now works only if vanguard fails and since vanguard fails 35% of the time that means your shell will block 28 dmg all the time while 65% of the time you will have a 40dmg block.
the buy before you take skill is the same with magina pudge and viper where you always get diminishing stack on magic res regardless of the order of purchase

[-toXic-]

no..i was making it always but i stoped...hmm i think 2-3 months i dont make it.

[Anomandaris]

Primo - few versions ago when you bought Vanguard before taking kraken shell, vanguard didn't work (there was 100% chance to block 28 dmg from skill). Ofc solution here was to drop vanguard after taking 1st level of kraken and then pick it again.

Secundo - primo doesn't matter, since vanguard on levi is kinda useless, as extasy explained it.

Tetro

"With maxed Kraken Shell &
Vanguard, you are roughly reducing (.65*35) + 28 = 50.75 damage per attack. As you gain more
armor, this damage reduction maintains its effectiveness as well."
No single word here is true. About stacking everything was exained by extasy. Also damage reduction proceed BEFORE armor reduction.

Reliable description of stacking mechanizms can be found on dota wiki: www.dota-allstars.com/wiki

Yes I used to buy vang on levi too :P

[Artanthos]

Venguard

veng

veng

Venguard

venguard

: |


Anyway poll is pointless here. Vanguard is most stupid item on levi<DOT>

[[RO]Claudiu]

its usefull until u have the cracken shell at level 4 .. then u can sell it but until then it servs your purpose and helps u tank and farm ... i'd say depends on how much dmg u have to take as a tank if u tank vs zeus and nevermore ... vanguard may save your life .... id say its not a complete waste of money

[phaNtom.]

Well, 2nd skill is starting when u are far lvl12, so if u have a good farm b4 2nd spell, u could buy vang., but later, nope ;/

[LifeDrainer[RO]]

did not you get it that vanguard on tide is NOT good?with or w/o good farm, before or not lvl 12 or w/e

[VamoS_GringO]

no good

[phaNtom.]

;811866']did not you get it that vanguard on tide is NOT good?with or w/o good farm, before or not lvl 12 or w/e

Ok Ok man, not good :S

[Fika[F]]

CLAUDIU;802697']its usefull until u have the cracken shell at level 4 .. then u can sell it but until then it servs your purpose and helps u tank and farm ... i'd say depends on how much dmg u have to take as a tank if u tank vs zeus and nevermore ... vanguard may save your life .... id say its not a complete waste of money
most lol thing i heard... build vanguard on tide becouse of zeus in oposite team...
btw vanguard is not always the best choice, I'd say hes beter against high-ias 'n low-mid-dmg than against low-ias 'n huge-dmg... does more blocking for more attks not dmg :)

[-eXtasY-]

I see you dont get it. I will try to make it more simple.

Making Venguard on Levi is same as making Lothar on Riki. Clear enough? :)

[Tkc]Fear]

CLAUDIU;802697']its usefull until u have the cracken shell at level 4 .. then u can sell it but until then it servs your purpose and helps u tank and farm ... i'd say depends on how much dmg u have to take as a tank if u tank vs zeus and nevermore ... vanguard may save your life .... id say its not a complete waste of money

Can you clarify how Vanguard will save your life against Zeus?

Thanks.

[Artanthos]

Making Venguard

FFS
When will you realize that item we are talking about is vAnguard not venguard.
What a noob o-me-gee.

[[VG]King]

yes i think you need vanguard on tide.

[LifeDrainer[RO]]

great, almost everyone agreed vanguard is waste of gold on tide (and really is), and you come here and say you think it is good....gj

[Tkc]Fear]

Signature material ^^

Read all posts and one in which Extasy explain how it works, if you can't understand that you have serious problem

[OMGBergrush]

Fear;826279']if you can't understand that you have serious problem

its not that serious but its a problem nonetheless

[[BfBt]Goxx]

I think vanguard is good for tide.. w/e

[LifeDrainer[RO]]

You got to be joking, really, you like to spam...since i cant explain how could you post that masterpiece, after we decided something, just few posts above....

[Tkc]Fear]

Goxx;826683']I think vanguard is good for tide.. w/e

Go make Lothar on Riki please.....

[Ogi.]

well, imo vanguard on tide is good ;D

[JoLpAz]

ogi i agree with you..

[_Kyuubi_]

why vang? i dont agree with that. make dominator( late satanic)+battlefury. u handle fights more easy, and more competitive. My build on Tide : 1power threads,2satanic,3battlefury,assault cuiras. in my opinion bang doesnt help u that much as it helps weaver or axe

[Tkc]Fear]

well, imo vanguard on tide is good ;D

You encourage noobs to make vanguard ^^

[VamoS_GringO]

why vang? i dont agree with that. make dominator( late satanic)+battlefury. u handle fights more easy, and more competitive. My build on Tide : 1power threads,2satanic,3battlefury,assault cuiras. in my opinion bang doesnt help u that much as it helps weaver or axe

well your build sux,imho :tiphat:
.support ogi :clap:

[LifeDrainer[RO]]

this thread is going to nowhere

all was already explained

conclusion?

NO vanguard for Tide, its a waste of gold

:tclosed: