Questions about tiny

[The_Bogeyman]

Does tiny need dmg items or just AS and str items, and if he does what dmg items are good for him. And wont a carry hero be superior to tiny in a 1v1 situation where they both have the same lvl but the carry hero has 1 or 2 dmg items while tiny has maybe non?

[OMGBergrush]

attack speed = attack damage provided there are no modifiers on each attack like bash maim etc. if you have 100 dmg and get a +100% ias its like you got +100 dmg because in the time +dmg deals 200 dmg the ias will deal 100x2. since tiny has imba dmg ias is the way to go because its generally cheaper than +dmg stuff

[imaginary]

Bottle or arcane, nulls, travel, cuirass, guinsoo

[-eXtasY-]

Well first of all you have to understand role of tiny. He has extremely powerfull small aoe spells on beginning with not so good mana pool. So, its more then obvious that you are great early game killer/ganger. Therefor what you need the most is fast and reliable mana regeneration, just as mana pool boost. I recommend you taking Arcane since you will get both, but bottle with few nulls can do the trick also. Get few town portals as well so you can travel from line to line and gang fast.
Your goal isn't to fight vs carry heroes late game, you have to prevent them to become powerful in start using your superiority with dmg spells.
So, take disabler with you (venge, lion lina, lesh, tauren, sven etc) and make great line domination with many early game kills. After you get decent level and some early game items start mass ganging. Blink can be very useful item for gangs and surprising effect with blink+toss combo, but use it only if you have reliable team who will follow you.
About expensive items there is rly not much to think. As imaginary said get bot, curilass/hot/hex (depends what you need more based on lineups and game situation).

[glop2]

If you got gankers/pushers team you should go for arcane ring and dagger, later you can sell your arcane and buy guinsoo or shiva instead.
If you got more late game heroes and cant push fast, help them with a cuirass (armor greatly helps Tiny to survive late game - shiva is still good for that).
With some HP and armor, Tiny is a good tank against melee carry heroes like Void, Ursa. But if they got Razor, Nevermore, dont even bother to buy IAS like Hyperstone. Just push fast with your team, cause later these heroes will completely destroy you.

Remember the power of the toss combo :
Blink to some hero, avalanche AND toss him fast, so he can suffer the damage of Avalanche TWICE (that's the trick, yeah!). When Tiny got ulti level3, this combo can take out any 1000 HP hero (like most of support intell, who will have only 2 bracers for stuff)

Remember another thing, with blink dagger you can blink into ennemies and toss the most dangerous hero out of his base, right into your friend (like their damage dealer), juste like Vengeful Spirit's swap. It doesnt matter if you die in the process, you'll make your team win if they lost their carry hero. Just dont toss Magnataur into your friends ;)

<3 tiny

[klemen]

bracer or mask, threads (pwns ulti on lv6), hyperstone (pwns all ulties), then you can go different ways, like dagger, shiva's (boosts mana and armor, also very nice slow) and then depends on the game.

[-eXtasY-]

threadsIts a quite wrong way.. As i explained, in early game its much important to rely on your spells, not physical dmg. Also tiny has maybe the best farming capability mid game since he's able to kill whole creep wave with two spells. There for BoT is more then great item since it will provide you big amount of money with teleporting on pushing waves and talking all ceeps with 2 spells, ofcourse if you have enough mana to support such mana use (what is np with arcane). About late game importance of bot comments are not needed since we talked about it so many times.
pwns ulti on lv6Well personaly i don't take ulty on lvl 6. Why? Well its much easier for me to farm without ulty since i have better and faster animation and dmg is just enough to do it more then efficiently. So, i max out stun and toss and take first level of ulty on lvl 10. Its kinda discussable but for me it showed as good way to play.

[LifeDrainer[RO]]

Well personaly i dont take ulty on lvl 6. Why? Well its much easier for me to farm without ulty since i have better and faster animation and dmg is just enough to do it more then efficiently. So, i max out stun and toss and take first level of ulty on lvl 10. Its kinda discussable but for me it showed as good way to play.

i do same

[URK-Ruthless]

arcane, boots of travel, battlefury, cuirass, s&y, mom.

[The_Bogeyman]

U dont take ulti till lvl 9, after u maxed out yr toss and avalanche since as extasy said u can farm without effort using those spells especially with arcane providing enough mana for every1 of yr spells. I just wasn't sure about the dmg item, of whether or not he needs it after he got hyper (cuirass). I dont think s&y is a good idea on him since u got enough ms from bot, as from hyper and for the same amount of money u could get heart. But is buriza or battlefury a good item for him?

[-eXtasY-]

I think fury is a waste for tiny. Imo, only benefit you get from fury is better farming and pushing, but with your spells that's the last thing you need. About battle, well its stupid to expect that opponents will stand next to each other so splash dmg will be kinda useless.
So if you are interested about late game items, cuiras is i great choice. It will buff your two biggest weaknesses, lack of armour and low attack speed.
If you really want to go on that way, i would rather take satanic then buriza.
Just dont forget one great strength of you in late game. The third spell (forgot its name). Its just one of the best counters against strong agi heroes therefor it would be good to get hp with hot and make their life much worse.

[URK-Ruthless]

buritza and satanic are good items for agility heroes but u'll never win a game on ur own...i'd rather say buritza it's an waste of tiny power in late game without mom. and a little advice from my point of view don't do on tiny tarasque cause his "design" wasn't for that... i've forgoten too the third spell name but those small stuns with battle fury can be an unliked surprise for adversaries...

[VamoS_GringO]

tiny with butter and satanic owns late game :)

[klemen]

orb effects stack? wtf?

[OMGBergrush]

orb effects stack? wtf?

you on drugs or what

[klemen]

Once I bought mask and it didn't work on it.

[VamoS_GringO]

Once I bought mask and it didn't work on it.

huh?tiny has no passive or active orb-effect skills so why it shouldnt work?Btw double avanlanche owns!
with lvl 16 you´re doing some nice dmg with a simple combo:
avalanche dmg (300)+toss dmg(300)+toss projectile dmg (195 with lvl 3 ulti)+avalanche dmg (300)+physical att dmg (when there are no units around the enemy hero that you toss he will hit him once while he´s in the air elseway there is a chance that tiny will attack some other enemy near that hero)=1095 magic dmg + 1 normal attack dmg.
Translation:In that case heroes with less then 1000 hp will get killed instantly.
About that toss projectile dmg
-without ulti:20% of your toss dmg.on lvl 4 toss its 60 bonus magic dmg (only on the unit that you actually throw in the air)
-with lvl 1 ulti:20%+15% of 300 = 105 dmg
-with lvl 2 ulti:20%+15%+15% = 150 dmg
-with lvl 3 ulti:20%+45% = 195 bonus dmg

[Anomandaris]

All about Toss from DotA wiki:

A random unit in a 275 AoE around Tiny will be tossed to a target area, damaging all enemy units in a 300 AoE around the targeted area.

Has a 1 second Travel Time, regardless of target area distance.
Toss deals 20% of the damage to the tossed unit. It increases when putting skill points in Grow!. Tossed allies take 20% damage from Toss regardless of Grow! level.
If a unit is inside an AoE of an enemy nuke and that unit gets tossed, he will be sent out of the AoE. It means that if he lands inside the same nuke, he will get damaged again.
This is a common strategy when using Stone Giant. If a unit is struck by Avalanche and tossed almost immediately such that it lands back in the AoE of Avalanche, then that unit can actually take twice the total Avalanche damage
If the tossed enemy unit is an enemy unit with Linken's Sphere, Toss would trigger Linken's Sphere's cooldown but would still get tossed and get damaged..
Toss deals Magical damage which is reduced by the target's Spell Resistance but is not blocked by Spell Immunity.



Toss deals Magical damage


Can you destroy wards (eg. Mass Serpent Wards from Rasta's ulti) with it? I'm sure it was possible in earlier versions and i am almost sure that that wards are immune to magic. So it used to be phisical damage?

[VamoS_GringO]

Can you destroy wards (eg. Mass Serpent Wards from Rasta's ulti) with it? I'm sure it was possible in earlier versions and i am almost sure that that wards are immune to magic. So it used to be phisical damage?
It was possible in earlier versions but didnt try it out on the new one.Toss never used to be physical damage,its a magicial dmg type ability/spell but you can damage buildings with it so it wouldnt surprise me if those wards still can be destroyed/damaged with toss(witch doctors ward too :)).

[VengefulSpammer]

no it is not possible. if that is possible it would be abused in competitive dota

[/imo]

[VamoS_GringO]

abused?its rather a rare situation to see rhasta or witch doctor in a competitive dota game.its easy to figure out if its possible or not 1v1 ap and try it :).

[danut21]

tiny is great 1vs1 so i prefer threads instead of bot. attack speed is always better than speed itself for tiny. so i buy ring, threads, helm, void stone, satanic, and buriza (and another buriza if possible). huge criticals, good lifesteal and craggy exteriror will do the work against melee-ers. in theory tiny should be invincible...
and now thing about the scare factor. a big hero with good dmg :ohmy:would u go and attack him like that?

[[RO]Claudiu]

tiny is great 1vs1

i couldnt help noticing you say this so ill say something in return : tini in 1v1 is basicly powerless vs any range hero .... take trax or viper for example .... the poor rock doesnt even get close and he dies ...

this reminds me of the time i played tini vs trax .. i had tini .. she basicly was untouchable .. she give me 1 arrow once every 2 secs ... it was horible !!!!! i had nightmares about that game .... i did kill her once using avalanche and toss , tossing her in the middle of the avalanche so she got full dmg whyle she was on the ground , 1 punch in air + toss dmg and again the dmg of avalanche on landing ...

[danut21]

trax and viper have low hp. 1 vs 1 means fight on the river, they just meet and fight no one walks away. c'mon would u attack a tiny with 2 burizas hyperstone and satanic? generally ranged are weaker than melee

[VamoS_GringO]

trax and viper have low hp. 1 vs 1 means fight on the river, they just meet and fight no one walks away. c'mon would u attack a tiny with 2 burizas hyperstone and satanic? generally ranged are weaker than melee

lol,sry but this is a noobish statement.earth with 3 burizas,butter and satanic rox!first of all trax is a late game hero,one silence and tiny is dead...believe me :).this works maybe in pubs,tiny with burizas etc but in a pro game ppl would just laugh.

[The_Bogeyman]

U also don't have time to farm up those items, especially not in 1v1 or good games. About getting close to them, i think that can easily be solved with dagger.

[danut21]

U also don't have time to farm up those items, especially not in 1v1 or good games. About getting close to them, i think that can easily be solved with dagger.

i mean in 5 vs 5 games
tiny can farm very well with arcane. yes dagger solves the problem. as I saw recently most players buy lotar on trax so with no hp trax is dead. would u go and attack this tiny with this trax? the damage increase from skills is not included but tiny has the 240 base dmg + items. some trax dont have the time to go invis when in deep sh...:thumbUP:

[fatman69]

oh well techie with 6 divines would own them all together but it's not the point. the point is to make a cheap and effective item build.

those pics you showed were prolly taken in some pubs.

[VamoS_GringO]

they are made in some program,forgot the name.tiny arcane or euls,dagger,bot and gg.nothing more really needed in a decent game.

[danut21]

oh well techie with 6 divines would own them all together but it's not the point. the point is to make a cheap and effective item build.

those pics you showed were prolly taken in some pubs.

edited from the site.
u can make such items after 60+ min. but as you said tiny vs trax with no itmes: tiny wins of course

[fatman69]

y after 60 min. but the mid game is the ball breaker for these heroes, especially tiny. so unless you come up with cheap and effective build for mid game, there probably won't be a +60 min to build those items.

[URK-Ruthless]

tiny it's an outstanding hero in -du mode :)

[YoP.Shinigami]

amm, nope, he wont. Can't belive I'm posting in this, but let's just put it straight, Trax is a late game carry hero, Tiny isn't. Maybe he can get in close with dagger, but he cant kill her with just 1 spell combo, so trax will ww away, the use frostarrow to keep him on the distance (shoot ==> retreat, shoot ==> retreat etc etc) until he gives up and realizes, he cant beat her. ggkthnxbai

[VamoS_GringO]

Location: Sweden
**** Shini,i always thought that you're from Slovakia or something ^^
Tiny too imba early/mid game...you can get some really easy and fast kills if you know how to use him properly.Late game he just stuns and toss ppl so your carry has a easier time to finish the enemies off :).

[ribacbacri]

AS mucs as i like tiny ( he is so fun to play with) he wont stand a chance against a trax or viper period.

AS they explained for trax i'll just add that viper has mgc res so won't take full 1000 dmg from combo and still has skills that will slow your ms as well as

So conclusion viper >> tiny

[danut21]

AS mucs as i like tiny ( he is so fun to play with) he wont stand a chance against a trax or viper period.

AS they explained for trax i'll just add that viper has mgc res so won't take full 1000 dmg from combo and still has skills that will slow your ms as well as

So conclusion viper >> tiny

really? how much hp has viper? 2k max. and tiny does much damage late game. when combo, tiny does 1 extra hit or 2 maybe

[phaNtom.]

Tiny doesnt need dmg, he has 250 of his own dmg. Just boost him armor and atack speed.

For me, best items for him are:

BoT, HoM, Shiva, Assault and 2 slots u can buy him or lifesteal or more dmg:)

[danut21]

PhantoM;818699'] Just boost atack speed.
For me, best items for him are:
BoT...

why u ppl buy bot on tiny?. if tiny has damage then use it. bot are useless in gang fight.
u say increase AS but u buy bot for tiny. you contradict yourself
Assault cuiras is too expensive. I prefer hyperstone + satanic and some criticals and of course power threads

[The_Bogeyman]

Since tiny has 280 ms with treads u'll have only 345, which means u wont be able to catch most of the heroes who have only boots, nor will u be able to flee from fights and control the map, etc. Getting hyper should give u enough as to rain havoc on them especially with yr spells. Lately i've been making malevolance on tiny instead of arcane, and i can say it works pretty well: give more then enough mana and mana regen, boosts yr attack speed and also gives +40 dmg, and u should see how easily heroes fall when u cast malevolance on them, cast yr spells afterwards, than hit them a few times. Then u get hyper and u can really pack a punch.

[VamoS_GringO]

why u ppl buy bot on tiny?. if tiny has damage then use it. bot are useless in gang fight.
u say increase AS but u buy bot for tiny. you contradict yourself
Assault cuiras is too expensive. I prefer hyperstone + satanic and some criticals and of course power threads

Quit playing pubs and join some more serious games,watch some replays or read some guides if you dont understand.@at your item build....noob build.Period.
@why u ppl buy bot on tiny?. if tiny has damage then use it. bot are useless in gang fight.
Don't post here on strategy forum anymore,you're just confusing ppl who really wanna learn how to play certain heroes and asking for PROFESSIONAL advices.
Thanks in advance.

[Mr.7error]

I dont know if this has already been mentioned but altough one would think it's insane, tiny with refresher can wreak havoc to a single target. After an aproximation, you realise you can deal an exces of 2.5k dmg to a single hero with the spell combo.

[[RO]Claudiu]

I dont know if this has already been mentioned but altough one would think it's insane, tiny with refresher can wreak havoc to a single target. After an aproximation, you realise you can deal an exces of 2.5k dmg to a single hero with the spell combo.

you cant just make refresher alone .. u need manaboost also .... and just for 2 normal spells i wouldnt bother to make refresher ... if you want extra spells make dagon + arcane on tini :D u get the same result and dagon has a short cooldown .. refresher has a big cd ... u wait 210 secs for refresher to make a combo ....?

[Mr.7error]

This is just for pub fun, ofc not for a competitive game.

[URK-Ruthless]

i like tiny, very good hero against intel undisablers/stuns heros

[phaNtom.]

Tiny buy AC, and shivas mega imba armor + nuke damn ;/

[Ogi.]

i think pover threads beter then port boots becase u can faster atack !!!