DotA Ladder

[Anomandaris]

Making ladder in our community is extasy's and mine idea. We think that it can encourage some players to play ss games and will increase gaming level here.

Project is already started and I think it will be ready to test in next two weeks, so we can run it in 4-5 weeks.

I want to know your oppinion about it. If you don't want to have ladder tell why - almost everything can be changed.

What is it?

DotA Ladder would works similar to battle.net ladder in pg. It count every ss game and add points to players for every win.

How would it work ?

After every ss game someone will have to go on ladder site and upload replay. That's all that must be done buy players. You will be able to check current ladder on www site and check it via Guard.

What would be counted ?

For every game you play and win you will get experience points. The better are your opponents, more point you will get. On the other hand every lost game will make you lose few points. This is my first idea about giveing points. If you have better idea, want to count something else - post it here.

And if you have any questions about it ask them here too :)

[-eXtasY-]

I would just like to add that ladder will be based only on wins/loses , but it will also contain kills/death , creeps killed/denied and maybe something more , so u will be able to see much interesting info. This will also give us opportunity for many innovations based on rank , maybe even some prizes.. we'll see...

[2fuckingbitch]

I said i dont care :D
But maybe this is good idea... i dont know simple this can be good sometimes
but sometimes this can sux..

It dont have power to say what is good ,what is not :D

[FLaMeSeeKeR]

I vote for "It's Cool" if You can handle with all tech aspects why not :)

[imaginary]

I agree its cool, if u can really handle it, organise it to work well, it should only add to the ss community not harm it in any way.
I wish it can happen and i will surely participate when i will be able to play again normally.

[BlackLagoon]

that would be nice..

[-toXic-]

well i think u tought a very good idea,,happy hours ARE OUT OF MODE.this will increase ss playing.

[meow_meow]

yea...always wanted something like that so we can really rate players
and make players try harder to win and get points+respect

[FLaMeSeeKeR]

I don't know if that is possible, but if you only could designe some icons for this would be rly great :p

[ss-Kenyshor]

Nice one, i like it, but can you do something for me ?. Dont show creep killed, it makes me weak to see an average of 300+ from tay. I dont mind about the rest:).

[Ogi.]

Great idea ; )
If this would work , i can bet ss would but much more popular cause there are so many users who would like to be ranked : ))

[LifeDrainer[RO]]

i think its cool,some extra motivation for ss players

[[LOA]Kyree]

Some questions:
-if a player is banned,after 3 weeks he post replay,he get aprooved again,his rating points will suffer any penallty?
-isnt wrong to remove points from a player if he loose game,even he didnt died all game,he maked a good score(hero score),he maked good items,good last hit/deny,well farming(maby loosing couse of bad team or bad hero picks)?
-is it posible to show ranking when i press players profile?not only via guard or site?
If i have new ideeas or other questions i'll post later.
Cyas

[boogi3]

ofc it's cool cuz its allrdy used in all major dota inhouse leagues...
u should have add this sooner....

[D3c3bal]

the idea is good, the creep kills shouldn't be put because this will encourage farming, maybe only the denies.

[rza]

Good idea, needs to be modified a bit.

About uploading replays, u could just add 2 new commands to Guard. like /w guard /win or lose
Guard would only count win/lose in ss games created in channel, since some1 could abuse it for getting better rank.
So when the game ends, all players must do /w guard /win or lose, and guard should paste their whispers into channel chat, cuz again, some1 could abuse that too.
That system is used in dotapickup on original servers and it works rly great.

U could add more commands to see actual top10, noob10 rank.

/w guard /top10 , /w guard /noob10

c u =*

[rC]MarveL[Oo]

its a gr8 idea,it may encoruge some ppl to go back to xpam like me and some other cro players,u just need to fix one more thing and that's bot hosting games.i hope u will made it.

[Ogi.]

and , about cs info would make people to farm more , i would say that it would make people farm better , [ not auto-a ofc ;p ] and thers nothing bad : )

[Mr.7error]

Very stimulating idea, competition will encourage them to play ss games like never before imho. Nice one :)
As for the farm, bad idea imho and all know Tay wins :)

[D3c3bal]

what about the players that decide to do the forest?

creep and hero kills shouldn't be put

[Mer]

yea... rather gold per minute, Tay wins.

[-eXtasY-]

U didn't understand me , you will be ranked ONLY by wins/loses ratio , but u will be also able to see interesting info as creep , kills , deaths stats. So creeps stats and scores will not affect your position on ladder

[D3c3bal]

aaa, this is better :D

[[max_serbia]]

It's really nice idea. Good job.

[Artanthos]

In my opinion it's BAD IDEA. :/
Many players will play only for win, so if they see "omg imba team 1" (lets say me and keny + 3 other ss) they will quit to not recieve loose. Also there on draft we will see still same heroes. People will be frightened to take some funny heroes.
Also if you want to count kills/deaths I will kill myself. Even now I see in many ss games ppl, that don't want to start action with levi/magna/eni because they will go first and they might die!!!11 So they wait far away, and use ulti after all teammates are dead...
Same about cs stats. All will want to play carry heroes just to have "z0mg imba kill/death ratio, and wtf pwnage cs".

[[YY]Kai]

Great idea ;) hope it works out.

PS : Memmon will lose...jks ;)

[BlackLagoon]

In my opinion it's BAD IDEA. :/
Many players will play only for win, so if they see "omg imba team 1" (lets say me and keny + 3 other ss) they will quit to not recieve loose.

i have to disagree with you bcuz i also leave if i see the "imba" team because if opposite team isnt good enough it will be bad game,and last time i ended up with -rep for that.So my point is this has nothing to do with ladder idea.

[-eXtasY-]

Number of points you get/lose will also depend of your opponents . So if you play against high ranked players you will get very much points for the win , but u wont lose much if you dont. Same in opposite situation if "imba" team wins they will not get much points as they would if teams were more balanced.

[Bonzy]

Good idea overall , tho some people will lose RL for this...

p.s. I would like to see top gun's stats =)

[D3c3bal]

go with it, ftw :D

[_Seeker_]

I vote for it`s cool because this can help ss a lot.Ppl shouldn`t forget that this game is only for fun.

[sublime_]

In my opinion it's BAD IDEA. :/
Many players will play only for win, so if they see "omg imba team 1" (lets say me and keny + 3 other ss) they will quit to not recieve loose. .

We should play -rdsp and all happy .. will be fair for all.. agree ?

Edit:Will be nice if we have this ladder in our community..

[sunnis]

random ss player 1 picks razor hero kills/deaths 13/2 cs= 600
random ss player 2 picks enigma hero kills/deaths 3/6 cs= 150

the point is clear, everyone will pick carry, just to go for the stats, to show that they are best.

tay got the point here. I vote for no.

[-eXtasY-]

Is it so hard to read out posts ?

cs and kills/deaths will have nothing with rank!

Only wins/loses will be counted so if team picks 5 carry they can only lose and drop on ladder , that why i consider it great. There will be more team play , more gangs, more pushes , because players will focus on how to win a game........ and what is the most important it will attract players to play ss games.

[[miL]Obst]

I think the idea is good, but uploading replay... guh too much time :)

[Silver-Berry]

imo great idea, we should begin with beta ladder and while the time passes, ladder experience gain will become more and more appropriate :)
Tournamets, Duels... sounds nice and will bring more ppl to ss for sure :)

[rza]

Obst;709415']I think the idea is good, but uploading replay... guh too much time :)


ofc noone readed my post

NAB THIS THING WORKS ON DOTAPICKUP ALRDY (its based on mIRC but nvm that)
i dont see WHY it couldnt work here -.-

[klemen]

I fully support the idea, cuz dotarank doesn't work for me. Such a lame program.

Btw, only for ss? -.-

[SetoKaiba]

sounds good. If i ever get decent internet im in :)

[Anomandaris]

Ahh thx guys for support.

Short summarize from me:

1st.
I hope that you will overcome lazyness and one player per game will upload replay. It's like 2 clicks.

2nd.
Experience lose because of lost game will be very low. I think that if you play game versus much more higher ranked opponents you would get some exp even if u lose. I will think about it.

3rd.
Ladder will show only cs / kills-deaths from best game and ofc it will NOT be counted in points

4th.
I don't know if it is possible to integrate it with server. However I will think about it, when ladder will be done.

5th
I don't think that ladder can be run for pub games. Too much leavers / feeders that destroys game. Rarely you can rely on team.

[D3c3bal]

5th
I don't think that ladder can be run for pub games. Too much leavers / feeders that destroys game. Rarely you can rely on team.
ladder should be only for ss, ss is becoming a strong community (already made some friends there) and this will take it to the next level.
This is a imba idea.

[Le[c]ko]

u should do that when u cr8 ladder game leader of 1 team pick players like draft... so u get balance

[sunnis]

Is it so hard to read out posts ?

cs and kills/deaths will have nothing with rank!

Only wins/loses will be counted so if team picks 5 carry they can only lose and drop on ladder , that why i consider it great. There will be more team play , more gangs, more pushes , because players will focus on how to win a game........ and what is the most important it will attract players to play ss games.


wrong, even now everyone wants to play carry and have imba score/cs.

Imagine what will happen when you put it where people can see it...

anyway since ladder idea won, we will probably see in future...

[Warkaholic]

In my opinion it's BAD IDEA. :/
Many players will play only for win, so if they see "omg imba team 1" (lets say me and keny + 3 other ss) they will quit to not recieve loose. Also there on draft we will see still same heroes. People will be frightened to take some funny heroes.

3 thoughts:

1. Make it -arsp? (btw, most of the old ss games were -sp, remember? the first ss safelist times? the only non -sp games were the cw's, like ss+xdt vs fubu, ss vs xdt and so on)

2. I remember I saw - a few years ago - a server with dota in the built-in ladder system. I don't know how they did it, because only blizz-marked maps can be used in the ladder system. This would be the best approach... I think any other ways will be, at some point, boring for the admins and forgotten in time.

3. Maybe this will lead to a break in the ss community, with ppl whining around when I take - for example - techies, even if I make 20+ kills and +200 dmg, a lot of argues and ban requests for childish reasons and so on.
I already had too many argues for this reasons: "why techies", "why don't u put remotes in clusters", "why +250 dmg on necrolyte instead of aghanim, noob" etc.
The answers are easy:
- because I play to have fun
- winning is more fun than losing (which is still fun, btw)
- I play my way to win
I don't want noobs (yes, I consider as noobs a lot of safelisted players) to comment my gameplay only for the reason they suck and need someone else to blame for their incompetence.
Concepts like lane control (reasons for NOT destroying a tower), map control, push timing (it's funny to see them: "all mid!" - they suicide mid, while the other 2 lanes are raped by creeps), counterpush, act instead of react, diffuse threat, the importance of a lateral lane vs mid lane, 4+1, scissors push, scissors backdoor (not the case in ss games)...well, all those are unknown for most of them.

Imagine all those ppl whining because they lost and there is a ladder to prove that! How much energy wasted with argues instead of playing!

[klemen]

I don't think that ladder can be run for pub games. Too much leavers / feeders that destroys game. Rarely you can rely on team.

The replay should be without leavers or extreme feeders.

[Artanthos]

Make it -arsp? (btw, most of the old ss games were -sp, remember? the first ss safelist times? the only non -sp games were the cw's, like ss+xdt vs fubu, ss vs xdt and so on)

Maybe we played diffrend games on old ss (old safelist + times before old safelist) but in my games there aren't sp at all. There were many games on some for ss clan host (ss-omega for example). They were 3-4 from ss clan, and rest were known ss players. Or some agl games - same situation. People just like to play with their friends and clan, not against.



The replay should be without leavers or extreme feeders.

I thought ladder idea is mainly to make people play ss games, not pubs. So wtf are you talking about? Ladder on pubs? "Are you LoL"?

[Warkaholic]

Maybe we played diffrend games on old ss (old safelist + times before old safelist) but in my games there aren't sp at all. There were many games on some for ss clan host (ss-omega for example). They were 3-4 from ss clan, and rest were known ss players. Or some agl games - same situation. People just like to play with their friends and clan, not against.


I mentioned the clan games, with omega (or ulises? can't remember) hosting and known ppl on the other side...and -sp was for ppl who didn't usually play together...Yes, it's possible we played different games, I can't remember more than 10 games with/against you (clan BoS, right?) but this is another subject :)

On topic: yes, it will be interesting to see a win/loss ratio (more than any other statistics or ratings). But only in random games, not experimented team vs randoms :) - I mean, for statistics reasons only...
Win or loss, the fun is still there, if reasonable ppl.

[basics]

I think it`s a very good idea. But i`m not sure how you`re gonna make it work. Giving points for loose/winning may raise another problem, that of your teamates and opponnents. I.e. I play with total strangers in my team and total strangers in opposite team. how can u give me a real rating based on my teamates, teamplay, skill ? So i will recive a rating by playing with total strangers and playing with total strangers will affect the result ...

I was thinking of some perspectives like giving rating to a player by winning/loosing when playing in the same team with his clan mates... I.e. I play with my clan in one team. at the end it is appropiate for me to get any rating based on the result of the battle.
I`ll wait for some thoughts before continuing with this idea.
Anyway it`s a great idea.

Edit:
I don`t think that rating a player by his score(i think some1 mention the score on some page) will be a good idea, this will encourage the kill steal, and it`s so much influenced by the hero. So the rating should be applied for the hole team. I.e. I play a number of games, i get a certain amount of exp lets say, now i`m playing another game, the exp from my team should be summarized and the opposition exp should be summarized, and the a ration will be given and the result of the game winning/loosing ,getting more/less exp should be influenced by the ratio. So more or less like the old ranking system.

[c_blizzard]

Great idea. I'm on it. Hope to be implemented fast

[D3c3bal]

the ladder will be based exact how it works in pg games, only win or lose.
doesn't matter how much the game ends, how much creeps/heroes you killed.
only win or lose

[-eXtasY-]

Probably we will just add the rule that only replays with 8+ ss players (max 2 vouched) and longer then 30 min will be accepted.
Anyway feel free to post all suggestions considering ladder.

[Sns]

maybe ppl that want to play just sign to play a game...

some1 create a game with a command... like /w guard /create newgame

then ppl can sign in.. /w guard /sign

and when there are 10 players, bot create teams ramdomly...instead of playing sp...

ihcs was working like that on m I R C ... : |

[Sagacity]

well i played on a system like that on north. it,s ok but this need something, that the players be in channel before starting game and and that is hard for our ss players;

after game host write won team 1 or team 2 and bot was adding points for eac player.

[Le[c]ko]

see this ... 1 player challenge other , then they choose mode n pick players like draft 1-2-2-2-2-1... n mb balance

[Snow-Berry]

1. Make it -arsp?

You must be kidding me O_O

what with art of picking a hero? rd is the best mode ever created, rest of modes are like counter-strike deathmatch..

Kyree;709100'
-isnt wrong to remove points from a player if he loose game,even he didnt died all game,he maked a good score(hero score),he maked good items,good last hit/deny,well farming(maby loosing couse of bad team or bad hero picks)?


bad idea. On the top of ladder shold be pro players, not players who plays the most..

PS.
my ban sucks =(

[Warkaholic]

I have to agree with Snow-Berry about one issue: it sux to be banned =))

[Anomandaris]

Progress in making ladder is big, most of code is already done.
Now I have to make www sites.
Because i'm not good at designing sites I ask you for help.
If you know html and css or you are good in graphics (cause we need also SS DotA Ladder logo) and you want to help PM me.

[fatman69]

In my opinion it's BAD IDEA. :/
Many players will play only for win, so if they see "omg imba team 1" (lets say me and keny + 3 other ss) they will quit to not recieve loose. Also there on draft we will see still same heroes. People will be frightened to take some funny heroes.
Also if you want to count kills/deaths I will kill myself. Even now I see in many ss games ppl, that don't want to start action with levi/magna/eni because they will go first and they might die!!!11 So they wait far away, and use ulti after all teammates are dead...
Same about cs stats. All will want to play carry heroes just to have "z0mg imba kill/death ratio, and wtf pwnage cs".

i agree, it's a nice idea but would lead to something bad. i think counting hero kills would make people greedy and cause not picking of support(i really don't give a rat's ass, i prefer support in ss, and wouldn't mind any reputation or rank). and if some1 likes to play support, plays it good, but gets no kills and his team loses, his rank would be =noob.

Edit by Anom: Again, there will be no points for cs or Kills/Deaths ratio. Only win or lose

pls don't make this like ggc, where people would sell their mothers for exp points and ranks, if you have to rank smth, my suggestion would be that you give some1 + rank point for attending a ss game. this would be a better stimulation for players IMO

[BlackLagoon]

omg learn to read posts..hero kills will be just info wont count

[fatman69]

yy, my bad. sry.

but i just didn't understand 1 thing. in order to get my rank exp, i need to upload my replay by myself or if 1 player does it, every1 gains exp?

[-eXtasY-]

I m totaly against team captains , sp all the time and common rules , it reminds me to much on IHCS and ss will never be like it. I just dont want to take fun from the game .This ladder is just for fun and it's mostly made to attract players .

[Anomandaris]

but i just didn't understand 1 thing. in order to get my rank exp, i need to upload my replay by myself or if 1 player does it, every1 gains exp?

One player upload, everyone got exp. And there is protection to not allow several replays from one game be uploaded.

[bigTomaTosouPWN]

make ladder with win/loss

make option where u see "played with most denies in 1game ever", etc

that better than have all the denies he ever made)

[D3c3bal]

bigtome is right, "played with most denies in 1game ever" is much bettter then "all the denies he made"

Edit by Anom: That is what I wrote in post on 2nd page of this thread. I'm happy that you like this idea.

[sublime_]

I wanna know what is hepened with dota ladder? You work on it? and when we will start to use it ? tnx

[sunnis]

I wanna know what is hepened with dota ladder? You work on it? and when we will start to use it ? tnx

It will be developed soon

[-eXtasY-]

Most of the work is already done , you can expect it quite soon

[D3c3bal]

how much till ladder? :D

[Anomandaris]

I've just finished my exams and surely i will have a lot of time now to finish it :) Not more then week I hope.

[[YY]Kai]

I've just finished my exams and surely i will have a lot of time now to finish it Not more then week I hope.

Nice.

PS:Sex on the beach with a Hermit Crab.

[-eXtasY-]

Since everything is ready , no need for this thread any more . All further suggestions or problems post here (http://www.eurobattle.net/showthread.php?t=66563)