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NumbAndTimeless

01-13-2008, 16:31

Just for Information: This list wasn't Compiled by me, I attributed to it, but nevertheless it is no my List, this was developed by Rational Response Squad.

1. If Jesus fulfilled all the OT prophecies so well, why didn't the Jews recognize him as the messiah? - Francois Tremblay

2. If Gen 3:24 is true, why hasn't anyone found the Cherubims and the " flaming sword which turned every way"?

3. It's been proven that modern humans originated from Africa. Yet, the Adam and Eve story claims the first Humans lived in a garden in Eden, near 4 rivers. ( Most of which no one can find). One of these rivers mentioned is the Euphrates, which runs through Iraq, Syria and a portion of Turkey. What's the truth? Did man come out of Africa or near the Euphrates River? - The Infidel Guy

4. When the believer gets to Heaven, how can Heaven be utter bliss when people they love and care about are burning in Hell ? - The Infidel Guy - [Note: Some say God erases your memories of them, but if God erases your memory, you as Mr. Joe /Jane Smoe ceases to exist.]

5. How can a God have emotions, i.e. jealousy, anger, sadness, love, etc., if he is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent? Emotional states are reactionary for the most part. How can God react to us if he is all-knowing and has a divine plan? - IG [Note: Indeed, many religious texts display their gods this way . Listen to the An Emotional Godshow.]
6. Why would God create a place such as hell to torture sinners forever when he foreknew who would disappoint him? - IG [Note: Some say you have a choice, but this misses the point. If God hates sin so much, why create Adam and Eve when he knew they'd sin? The only conclusion I can come up with, if Yaweh exists, is that he wanted sin to enter the world.]

7. "God is all merciful," we hear quite often. Wouldn't it be more merciful of God to simply snap sinners out of existence rather than send them to hell? Or better yet, since he's all-knowing, not allow them to be born at all? - IG
ON GOD'S LOVE & HELL
1.) God's love is superlative.
2.) God's love of man exceeds man's love of self.
3.) Man's love of self prohibits torture.
4.) Considering God's greater love for us, Hell (eternal torture) is illogical.

8. Muslims are supposed to pray 5 times a day towards Mecca. Each prayer includes a variety of ritualism and posturing. If a muslim astronaut were to land on Mars. Prayer to Mecca would be ritualistically impossible due to the rotation of Earth and Mars. Are Muslims stuck here in Earth? IG [Note: Since this was first posted, a Muslim astronaut was faced with this very dilemma. The authoritative clergy informed him to pray as he normally would. I see this no where in the Koran. You see? Religions must change, or die out. It's interesting to note that, in the Koran, the moon is believed to be in the lowest Heaven, the level for those that barely made it to Heaven. Surah 71:15-16. One problem, no man can supposedly get to Heaven until they die. Yet, we've been to the moon. Our satellites beyond that.]

9. Why haven't we seen God reattach severed heads, restore someone who was burned alive or regrow amputated limbs? Surely these would be miracles difficult to deny. - Adam Majors and IG [Note: The typical answer is that man doesn't dictate God's actions. The conundrum here however is that, if God wants us to "know" him, then surely feats such as those mentioned above would be happening all over the world. Until they do, I'll remain an atheist.]

10. Why does God entrust the spreading of 'His' word to sinners? Why doesn't he do it himself? - IG [Note: Surely God would have known that not everyone would be convinced by the reality[sic] of his Bible. If God loves us so much, we are all going to Heaven. If God knew that I would be an atheist, and he doesn't like atheists, he shouldn't have allowed me to come into existence. But he did. Therefore, I must be serving the will of God, for I exist. Smiling]

11. In II Kings 2-23/24 we read about God sending 2 she-bears to attack children for calling the prophet Elisa bald, which he was, the bears killed 42 of the children. Was this a good thing to do? -- Brandon and IG[Note: I have heard some argue that the boys were a gang. So?! I didn't read anywhere in that passage where they laid a finger on the guy . Also, what kind of bears are these that can kill 42 kids? Super Bears? Surely the kids had to be running away.]

12. I have often heard from many believers that even Satan has a presence in the church, which is why even in church people can still have impure thoughts. If Satan can find his way in the church, how do Christians know that Satan didn't find his way into the Bible and twist the whole book? After all, men did vote on which books would make the Holy Bible. - The Infidel Guy

13. Why did God allow Lot and his daughters to escape from Sodom and Gomorra when he destroyed it only to later have Lot and his daughters engage in incestuous fornication. (Genesis 19:30-36) - Disillusioned [Note: To have intercourse with daddy dearest of course.]

14. Genesis 1:28-29 shows that man and all the animals were first created herbivorous. Most young-earth Christians (ones that believes the earth is less than 10,000 years old) say that the fall of man resulted in carnivorous animals ( hence death of animals). So, why did God punish the animal kingdom, making animals kill and devour each other because of man's mistake? Or, if you're an old-earth Christian (one that accepts that animals existed on earth for billions of years before man came on the scene) then how come fossils show carnivorous animals existed before man? - http://www.caseagainstfaith.com/contact.htm.

15. Many Christians believe that God is a thinking being, that he solves problems and makes a way for them when troubles come. Does God Think? If God is thinking, did he know his thoughts before he thought them? If so, again, where is his freewill and how is God thinking at all if everything seems to be one uncontrollable action/thoughts. - The Infidel Guy [Note: I'd say a God cannot think at all. To do so, would strip him of omniscience. Thinking is a temporal process.] ON GOD'S ATEMPORALITY
1.) God, an atemporal being, created the Universe.
2.) Creation is a temporal processes because X cannot cause Y to come into being unless X existed temporally prior to Y.
3.) If God existed prior to the creation of the Universe he is a temporal being.
4.) Since God is atemporal, God cannot be the creator the Universe.
[Note: I guess I should also note here that a timeless being would be without the proposition of past, and future. But to be omniscient, God must know the past and future. Hence a God that is atemporal and omniscient cannot logically exist. Smiling]

16. I have often heard that faith is all that is neccessary to believe in God and accept the Bible as true. If this is true aren't all supernatural beliefs true since they also require "faith"? - IG ON FAITH
1.) A prerequisite to believe in a Faith is faith.
2.) Having faith is all that is required to accept a Faith (belief) as true.
3.) All Faiths are true.
[Note: Of course all Faiths aren`t true, but this is the only logical conclusion that can be drawn from a person that states that, "Faith" is how one knows God.]

17. Why didn't God just kill Adam and Eve after the Fall and start from scratch? Actually, if God is all-knowing wouldn't he know that man would need to be killed eventually anyway, (the biblical flood)? Why create Adam and Eve at all? - ALSCARLATA@aol.com and infidelguy@infidelguy.com ON THE GARDEN OF EDEN
1.) God is omniscient (all-knowing).
2.) God knew that before he created man that they would eat of the tree of knowledge.
3.) God placed the tree of knowledge in the Garden anyway.
4.) God wanted sin to enter the world.
[Note: If God didn`t want sin to enter the world, why create Adam and Eve at all? He knew what would happen. Why place the forbidden trees in the Garden in the first place?]

18. If a spirit is non-physical but the human body is physical, how does a spirit stay in our bodies? - IG ON SPIRITS
1.) Spirits are not physical entities.
2.) Brains are physical entities.
3.) Past experiences are stored in our physical brains, we call that, Memory..
4.) Injury can damage portions of the physical brain that store memory and can alter or erase memories completely.
5.) If human spirits exist... after death, spirits can have no memory.
[Note: Some will say the spirit stores physical memories as well, but if true, the spirit would have to be physical at least to a degree. How could a non-physical spirit store, physical memories?]

19. Does God know his own future decisions? If God is all-knowing he actually shouldn't have any decisions to make at all. Nor can he choose anything over something else. For that would mean that he is neither omniscient nor omnipotent. In fact, he can't even think if this is the case. Since he can't DO anything, he might as well not exist. - IG ON GOD'S IMMUTABILITY - Unchangingness
1. If God exists, then he is immutable.
2. If God exists, then he is the creator of the universe.
3. An immutable being cannot at one time have an intention and then at a later time not have that intention.
4. For any being to create anything, prior to the creation he must have had the intention to create it, but at a later time, after the creation, no longer have the intention to create it.
5. Thus, it is impossible for an immutable being to have created anything (from 3 and 4).
6. Therefore, it is impossible for God to exist (from 1, 2, and 5) - Theodore M. Drange

20. If God is all-knowing, how could he be disappointed in His creation? -- Pm453ca@aol.com [Note: Indeed, wouldn't God know that before the creation of our Universe what creatures would disappoint him? That being the case why create those creatures at all? Also, in knowing absolutely the behavior of humans before creation, God cannot be disappointed either... for this world is exactly as he has planned it to be. If it's not, why create us at all?]

21. God struck down the Tower of Babel angry at the intent of the people that built them, if this is the case, many of the great pyramids ( which are bigger than any ziggurat) around the world should be rubble also, yet many still stand today. Were not the Egyptians and many other ancient pyramid builders reaching toward God /The Heavens? - IG [Note: In actuality, many of the Pharaoh's believed that, via their pyramids, they would become God's themselves.]

22. In the watchmaker analogy, a watch is used to show us intelligent design and compares that to the Universe as evidence of design. We know watches are designed because we have past experience with watches, as well as with other man made objects. My question is: What Universe is the Intelligent Design proponent using to compare this Universe with to draw such an analogy? What God did he see create a Universe? - IG

23. Why did God flood the earth to remove evil? It didn't work! Evil came right back, God should have known that would happen! So why did He bother? - PhineasBg [Note: A good example of how quickly sin returned, was Noah getting drunk just after they discovered land.]

24. If the garden of Eden was a perfect paradise as xians claim, then why did Eve even want to eat the fruit? Wouldn't a perfect place provide everything a person would want or desire and thus she would want nothing? - keyser soze [Note: Why were the trees there in the first place? Of course they love to throw the serpent into the equation. But ummm..who let the serpent into the Garden?... and why would God create such a creature knowing he would cause man's fall? Hmm.. God must have wanted the fall to happen.]

25. Why would an all-powerful god become flesh in order to sacrifice himself to himself so that his creation might escape the wrath of himself. Couldn't god, in his infinite wisdom, come up with something a little more efficient? - Omphaloskeptic2@aol.com ON THE BODY OF CHRIST
1.) God?s flesh was known as Jesus.
2.) Flesh cannot enter into Heaven (according to Paul)
3.) God is no longer Jesus.
4.) Jesus doesn?t exist.

(Note: Many at this point will state that the spirit lives on so therefore Jesus lives. This really depends on what you believe about Jesus. Is Jesus the son of God or God in flesh? If Jesus is merely the son there is no problem.However, if Jesus ?is? God himself, we do. You see, Jesus is called Jesus because of the attribute of Flesh. If Jesus = God (who is spirit) then the entity known as Jesus ceases to exist. The flesh/body of Jesus, no longer exists and the spirit of God is still the unchanging spirit of God. No Jesus at that point. The Flesh, called Jesus, is dead.)

26. After 9/11 a lot of people have been tossing around " god bless america". Why do they keep saying this? From the looks of it god hasn't blessed anything. If god had blessed america, the 9/11 event would've never happened. Theists seem to give the answer of "everything is part of gods big plan". If everything is part of gods big plan, why are we after Bin Laden? Wasn't he and other terrorists just carrying out gods desired plan? So it seems that Bin Laden/ terrorism isnt our enemy, but god . - rsri13@hotmail.com [Note: Unfortunately many religious nuts believe they are fulfilling their God's plan by going to war.]

27. Christians say that God is NOT the author of confusion. Can you say, Tower of Babel? - The Screaming Monkeys

28. If Noah's flood supposedly covered the earth for a year, regardless of whether or not all the animals could fit on the ark, what the heck happened to all the plants? Can you imagine a cactus surviving under 4 miles of water for a year? I can't either! - Kyle Giblet [Note: With God all things are possible. Oh wait, except in Judges 1:19.]

29. The highest rainfall ever recorded in a 24 hour period was 47inches in the Reunion Islands in 1947 (during a severe tropical storm). To cover the whole earth to a depth of 5.6 miles, and cover the mountain tops (i.e. Mount Everest), it would need to rain at a rate of 372 (three hundred and seventy two) inches per hour, over the entire surface of the earth. Can rain fall at such an astronomical rate? Where did all the water come from?? Where did it all go to??? And would not the dynamics of the earth be so out of balance (tides etc.) that the earth would become so unstable that it would wobble off into outer space???? - Richmond1@btinternet.com

NumbAndTimeless

01-13-2008, 16:33

30. What do Muslim women get in Paradise? - IG [Note: Some Muslims I have interviewed about this say that Muslim women will get the same thing men get or equal value. Smiling Oh really? So Muslim women will get 72 virgin men? lol. If Muslim men get 72 virgins, where are all these virgin women coming from? What of their freewill? Is Allah creating these women to be slaves to the men in Paradise?]

31. In the "Last Days" Jesus is supposed to appear in the clouds. How are the Christians on the opposite end of the world going to see him? Are there going to be millions of Jesus'? What about people that work underground? What about people in deep space? - thequester73@hotmail.com

32. The Bible says that God is a jealous God . How is this an example of a moral absolute of which man is supposed to follow? - IG ON GOD`S JEALOUSY
1.) "God is love." 1 John 4:8.
2.) "Love is not jealous." 1 Cor 13:4
3.) "I, the Lord thy God, am a jealous God." Exodus 20:5.
4.) The Christian god cannot logically exist.
(NOte: Basically love is NOT jealous, yet god is jealous, then God can`t be love. But if god IS love he cannot be jealous. Be he is.)

33. A true Muslim man is not supposed to do anything that the prophet Muhammad didn't do. If one remembers there was a big debate over whether or not Muslims should eat Mangos. If this is true, why in the Hell were these Islamic Fundamentalists flying airplanes? - IG

34. If the earth was covered by a complete global flood, every living creature killed except those surviving on the ark, why are there many completely unique animal species in Australia that are found no where else indigenously on the earth? - mitch@mchsi.com

35. If god is omniscient and " god is love," why would he allow a child to be conceived, knowing that that child would one day reject him and spend eternity burning in a lake of fire?- TiredTurkeyProd

36. Revelations is supposed to take place on Earth. What if we colonize the moon or Mars or inhabit a self-sustaining space station? Do we escape "judgement"? -- Ray Sommers [Note: No we don't Ray... and of course we all know that if there is any intelligent life out there besides us, they are all going to Hell too. Eye-wink]

37. Isaiah 40:28 says, "...the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is he weary?" If this is true, why did God rest on the seventh day?- IG

38. Everytime I go to a funeral the preacher and guests always say that " God " has called that person to Heaven or they say, " God said it was time to come home", or some such variation. If God is calling these people "home", why are we putting the murderers of these victims in prison? How can we punish a man or woman for doing God's will? - IG

39. Does God have a gender? In most churches, God is predominately referred to as a "he"? - IG [Note: The Bible says God is male, but what does this mean? Does God have a penis? Does he have hormones that dictate his gender? Smiling]

40. Why can't we wait until we get to Heaven to worship God ? Why would it be too late? - IG

41. What is the purpose of prayer? What can a finite being on Earth possibly tell an omnipotent, omniscient deity that he doesn't know already? - IG ON PRAYER
1.) Humans can?t change God?s mind for he has a divine plan and is unchangeable.
2.) Prayer can't change God's mind.
3.) Prayer doesn't change anything.
(Prayer may make you feel better emotionally, but it doesn`t change God`s mind.)

42. Some say Jesus was the all-knowing God. Jesus would have known then that when he died he'd be in heaven in less than 3 days to rule. If Jesus is alive and ruling today, what did he sacrifice? -- Cyndy Hammond

43. God knows that men are sinners, untrustworthy and evil, why does God leave it up to fallible man (clergy..etc) to teach others about his word? Why would he put our eternal souls at risk if he loves us so much? - The Infidel Guy and Danno778

44. Did Adam have nipples? If so, how did he acquire them? In fact, why would God give "later man" nipples at all? They serve no purpose other than lactation. Some say pleasure. Where is that in Genesis exactly? All mammals have nipples as well, are theirs pleasureful for them too? Many men don't find their nipples pleasurable at all. - IG

45. How did Adam and Eve know it was wrong to disobey God if they hadn't eaten of the tree of knowledge (of good and evil) yet? You can't blame them if they didn't know. - IG

46. If God has such a tremendous problem with uncircumcised penises, why did he make man with foreskin in the first place? - IG [Note: Some say, "So God can recognize his chosen people." Recognize? Is God so stupid that he has to physically look at men's penises? If not God, do other men need to? lol.]

47. Did Noah have fish onboard? Salt or Fresh? Since fresh water fish would die in salt, and salt water fish would die in fresh, only one type of fish would survive. Yet....?" - Frank Monaco

48. Why does the omnipotent, omnipresent God need help from man or angels to spread his word or do acts? - IG [Note: Some say God doesn't need help. But apparently he does.] - IG

49. How did Jesus ascend to Heaven in the Flesh when Paul says that flesh cannot inherit the kingdom of Heaven? (1 Cor.15:50) - IG [Note: Some say, well Paul said that and not Jesus. Yet they quote Paul when it suits there purposes.]

50. If God wants us to live right and choose "the good," why did he create evil? (Isaiah 45:6,7) Not to mention he already knows which people are not going to choose "the good" so why create those people in the first place? It seems that many people are born to go to Hell. - IG ON HELL
1.) God is all-knowing.
2.) Before I was born God knew I wouldn?t believe in him.
3.) I was born to go to Hell.
(Sure you may say I have a choice, but I think I`ve proven already that I really don`t. I`m simply fulfilling the will of God by being an atheist aren`t I? If I`m not, I shouldn`t exist: For God would have known that before I was created that I wouldn`t believe in him.)

51. I hear Christians all the time speaking of a spiritual war between Heaven and Hell, if this is true does God have limitations of power? Man only conducts wars because of our limitations of power and foresight. God has both all-power and all-knowledge, no reason for war of any kind. - IG

52. The Bible is full of phrases beginning with, "and the lord saw". Didn't he know before hand? - IG

53. How can a psychologist condone belief in something not proven to exist, when people are put into mental institutions on a daily basis for the same thing? i.e. aliens, fairies, imaginary people (Multiple Personality Disorders..)? - Dan Denton [Note: I'm sure that some of the pious believe that they are improperly placed there as well Dan. Smiling]

54. If Christians say they know God exists and that he will work miracles, what do they need faith for? Faith is not knowing. - IG

55. Brain, or shall I say, body transplants, will eventually be possible, where would the soul be then? Where is the soul? - IG

56. If God really wants us to know him, why doesn't he place the knowledge of him in our minds at birth? The same way many theists believe that God implants our sense of right and wrong in us a right birth. - IG

57. If God was Jesus' father (not Joseph), then why is Jesus' family tree traced through Joseph? -- Cyndy Hammond

58. What image of God was man made from? Couldn't have been a moral one or physical one. - IG [Note: One would suspect that an image of God would be perfect and cannot sin. Oops.]

59. Why can't God appear before everyone at the same time? Everyone in the world would then "know" he exists and not have solely "believe". And please, don't say he already tried that. Surely a God knows exactly what to do to convince a measly human of his existence. - IG

60. According to the New Testament Matthew 5:17 says "Do not suppose that I have come to abolish the Law and the prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to complete. I tell you this: so long as heaven and earth endure, not a letter, not a stroke, will disappear from the Law until all that must happen has Happened." So since Jesus has not returned the "Law" is still in effect, so why aren't we still burning witches, stoning adulterers and disobedient children, killing homosexuals, ostracizing people that work on the Sabbath (nurses, doctors etc.), flinging blood onto the horns of the alter, pulling off the heads of small birds, and don't forget human sacrifice to God (Leviticus 27 P.28 )? -- Sheila L. Chambers

61. If there is freewill in Heaven yet everyone has chosen good and is happy, isn't that proof that God could have made us with freewill, choosing good ( God ) and still being happy on Earth? - Dennis Hendrix [Note: In other words, evil didn't have to exist after all. Hey wait, even in Heaven apparently, evil can exist. At least for a short while. Satan became evil and was in heaven. Apparently he even had enough time to form an Army against God. Wow. Maybe Heaven won't be as peaceful as many believe.]

62. Why does God have a plan? Man is limited in power so we make plans because we are not all-knowing nor all-powerful. If God has a plan, isn't he reduced to a mere finite being? - IG

63. How could the all-merciful/loving God watch billions of his children burn over and over again for eternity? - IG [Note: Of course this is geared to those that believe in a fiery hell. I am well aware that not all Christians believe in a fiery Hell.]

64. Before reading and writing were invented (5000BC), on what basis did God use to judge the people who died before the Hebrew and Greek text (BIBLE) were written? -- agent2g@aol.com [Note: They are all roasting in Hell. Smiling]

65. Many Christians tell me that I will "burn in hell". If I have a soul, how can a soul burn? Aren't souls non-physical entities? - IG [Note: Some Christians groups believe that you will be given new bodies after judgement. However, if true, what's the significance of a spirit in the first place?]

66. How can one hold to the barbaric belief that something has to DIE in order to appease a god for a bad deed? -- Nickolaus Wing [Note: Because an old book says so Nick.]

67. Why does SIDS (Sudden Infant Death Syndrome) occur? Why would God allow a baby to live for such a short period of time? Why not just let them not be born in the first place? -- Terry Clark [Note: This actually happened to a friend of mine. Not even God himself could console her.]

68. If Jesus was nailed and died on Friday evening, and walked out of the tomb on Sunday morning, where's the 3rd NIGHT he predicted? Per Matthew 12:40: For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. - buckcash@buckcash.com

69. Many Christians claim that hell is merely existence outside of God ?s presence (C.S. Lewis among others). If this is the case, then Jesus could not have descended into hell (being God Himself). As a result, are you sure your sins are forgiven? - Byron Bultsma

70. Ten to twenty percent of all women who discover they are pregnant suffer a miscarriage. Also, it is estimated that anywhere from 14 to 50 percent of all pregnancies end in miscarriage. Seeing this is all part of God 's plan, does this make God the world's number one abortion provider? - Jim

71. What if, when you get to Heaven, you saw God causing pain and suffering out of anger or for the purpose of entertaining himself. What if he required people in heaven to praise and worship him non-stop even to the point of causing his worshipers discomfort, pain and boredom. What if, when he was bored, angry, or jealous, he would create natural disasters to make himself feel better. Would you still follow him? - Fernando [Note: Of course they would Fernando, many people followed Hitler out of fear as well.]

72. In Leviticus, the bible condemns homosexuality as an "abomination", giving some Christians a reason to hate, harass, torture and kill ***s and even picket their funderals with " God hates fags" signs. In the same book of the bible the eating of shellfish is equally an "abomination". Are these Christians planning to go after the patrons of Red Lobster next? - buckcash@buckcash.com [Note: hee-hee, that's all I can say. Jewish Law states that eating Fish without scales is an abomination and thus the Shark is one among the list. However, sharks do have scales, Placoid scales, one of the many reasons why a shark is called a Fish .]

73. Christians will tell you that if a baby dies it goes to heaven. Why then are they so against abortion? All the child is being deprived of is the opportunity to go to hell. Either that or god expects unborn fetuses to accept Jesus. - dissolvedego@satannet.org

74. If one could prove to you incontrovertibly that Jesus and God were all human fabrications would still believe? And why? - LOGICnREASON [Note: If you say yes. Then you are not concerned with the truth, you simply WANT to believe; and if you WANT to believe, indeed, there is nothing anyone can tell you..]

75. It is often said that God allows evil because one could not meaningfully appreciate good without experiencing its opposite. Why is it necessary to experience the opposite of something in order to appreciate it? Must I experience death in order to meaningfully appreciate life? -excidius

76. Bible literalists want you to believe that God's Word in the Bible is meant to be taken literally. If this is the case, why was Jesus fond of explaining things in parable and metaphor? Was Jesus literally discussing the biology of mustard seeds, or was the mustard seed parable meant to be interpreted figuratively as faith? -excidius

77. Liberal Christians say some parts of the Bible are literally true, but much else is to be interpreted figuratively as allegory. How do you know which is which? What distinguishing criteria are used? How can you be certain "God" is a literal and not a figurative concept? -excidius

78. Consciousness is the result of a physical brain, how could God being metaphysical be said to be conscious or sentient without having a brain? - Mindless

79. Considering how Leviticus is considered old law, and that Christians do not obey it anymore, why do they always use it to defend homosexuality being an "abomination"? -Bohorquez

80. If God is omnipotent and he has a plan ... then why did he not create the universe as it will be one second after the plan has succeeded? Who or what prevented him from doing that? - Timothy Campbell (http://www.tc123.com)

81. The large majority of people who have ever existed could not have learned of the Bible or Jesus Christ. And many people afterwards have found other religions or no religion at all to be more convincing, sometimes while being very virtuous. Do all these people really deserve eternal torment because of that? -- lpetrich

82. The above arguments also apply among different sects of Christianity, many of which state that most others are not True Christianity. -- lpetrich

83. Is it reasonable for the Creator and Ruler of such a vast Universe to be preoccupied with the sexuality of a species living on a tiny little planet? -- lpetrich

84. If the Christian god was all loving and all knowing why did he let religious figures such as Mohammed or Gautama Budda be born, knowing that they would mislead people from the 'true' faith and trick the majority of the world's population into burning forever in hell (in fact, if Islam didn't start, most of the middle east would probably be Christian). It would simple to use the Holy Spirit to guide them to Jesus and spread the 'true' faith. If the Holy Spirit exits, it certainly isn't doing it's job!

85. If one is obliged to follow all the teachings of the bible then why is engaging in homosexuality or adultery any worse than "suffering a witch to live", "muzzling the ox that treadeth the corn", "reaping the corners of thy field", "marring the corners of they beard", "plowing with an oxen and an ass", "hating thy brother in thy heart" or "eating frogs, shellfish and eels" ?

86. Exactly how did the alleged worldwide flood kill off all the world's sea creatures? How does one go about drowning a fish? -- Steever

87. Why did this alleged god create humans as an animal form of life that gets sick and dies and experiences pain and has a limited mind when 'it' could have created humans as a form of pure energy or of some indestructible material or whatever, and was totally ?sinless? and had ?pure? thought? If a god was omnipotent 'it' could have easily have done this. --AI

88. If a god is omnipotent how did 'it' fail to foresee that Satan would turn against 'it'? --AI

89. What is a god supposedly made of? --AI

This list was compiled by the Infidel Guy with submissions from many members of the atheist community.

Kiel

01-13-2008, 17:50

If you dont mind i would like to translate those questions to Polish and make some personal use out of them (Like showing them to priest who will come to my home or something like that)

I would like to know if im allowed to or not - i will follow your answer accordingly.

Thanks in advance.

c0ckz

01-13-2008, 17:54

finished reading :0

ProfileScorp

01-13-2008, 17:58

get a life :p

c0ckz

01-13-2008, 18:09

your talking to?

NumbAndTimeless

01-13-2008, 18:11

IOwnYouAll

01-13-2008, 18:15

gizaz my eyes hurt ....

most are really questions to make you think deep and i mean really deep ...

Kiel

01-13-2008, 18:26

Thanks i will mention their authors.

Anyway dont expect anyone on this forum to answer any of those questions - they just blindly believe in this and will not even come with single answer.

Nazgul

01-13-2008, 18:28

Well written, I am truly impressed by it.

@ Kiel: I think that the priest wouldn't answer you at all, you will need to get a conference with someone 'higher' than him, like a bishop or whoever.

IOwnYouAll

01-13-2008, 18:29

he will be lucky if he doesn't get struck by the priest for showing Atheist questions to him :)

klemen

01-13-2008, 19:06

You must learn, that nobody on this forum will read such long post. -.-

Kiel

01-13-2008, 19:28

Well written, I am truly impressed by it.

@ Kiel: I think that the priest wouldn't answer you at all, you will need to get a conference with someone 'higher' than him, like a bishop or whoever.

Its highly possible - most of priests dont really know what they are talking about at all :D

he will be lucky if he doesn't get struck by the priest for showing Atheist questions to him

I doubt he will try it - he wouldnt come out alive xD :D

NumbAndTimeless

01-13-2008, 20:09

You must learn, that nobody on this forum will read such long post. -.-

Well, some people might find these questions quite interesting.
I'm not awaiting from pupils who have better things to do like playing Dota, or Reading the Bible to attempt to answer these questions, I'm awaiting from more rational users to read these questions and add to them, make them more advanced and more complex.

fatman69

01-13-2008, 20:28

ok, i've just read a few first questions, man i don't have time to answer all of that. but i noticed 1 thing in particular. u take Bible for granted. Bible was written metaphorically so the people of old age could understand it easily. flaming sword of kerubins is probably a metaphor, just as well as story of Adam and Eve. my god man, u think god wants us to believe in fairy tales???

it was just to show that we can have (or could have had) perfect world, if not for our stupid nature,to go into smth beyond our limits. cloning is a very good modern example of "apple"...i'll try to explain some other as soon as i find the time to read'em all. just pls take into consideration that a lot of stuff in the bible is metaphorical, and should be taken for an example how we should live our life (and btw jesus summed up all the rules for life in 2 sentences, so try to look them up

Smurf

01-14-2008, 06:26

@ NumbandTimeless : The bible itself is a very vast and vague 'book' to read or understand.
The only difference is if you decide or not to believe in it.
I myself am an atheist,at least that's how i consider it,and i've even tryed to ask my religion teacher some things,she answered to all of them differently,but all with the same meaning after all,it is you who must convince himself to worship god,i am just his messenger.
Anyway,the whole point is there are some things which i frightenly believe in and there are some things that just blow me apart.
For example : my uncle passed away 8 weeks ago.He was a hard working man,had 2 childrens,a niece he loved and he was a man-bee,raising everything to bring it home.
He died of a stroke,right before he should have left work.His last words were delivered to his colleauge,a woman that told him to wait another 15 minutes so she can buy her newspaper : ' Come on,hurry,i have to be home by 7,i'm walking my niece to the kindergarden'.
His lose grievously made us all suffer.
Why did he died ? Why didn't mass murderers,pedophiles and so many other crooks that are doing much worse in 1 day then he did in his entire life died ?
Why .... ?
That's 1 recent reason that maximises my strangely,ill desire of hating god.
'God's paths are unknown .. ' they say ...

Questions : Why are you atheist ?
Why are some atheists ?

fatman69

01-14-2008, 14:00

ok, here's my answer to questions 4-7....

heaven as its shown in the bible (pearly gates and such), and hell for that matter as well, are ,guess what, again metaphors. they refer to our state of soul. christians/jesus believe there is something good in every one of us (no matter what preachers preach, this is one of the fundemental messages), and that we partially feel bad if we had done something wrong.

therefore, if we spend our life in sin without a sign of regret, when we are finally at our death bed we feel bad for all the things that we have done. heaven is a state when u can look at your life and say: "yeah, i did some bad stuff, but i regret it, i made peace with god (no matter jewish,muslim,christian God is one and the same) but i lived like a good person (more or less)." - u feel the relief
if u did bad things throughout his life, u feel remorse, and that torments you in eternety, burning gates, demons and such were made to ilustrate it to simple folk in the history who were uneducated and couldnt understand the concept of soul.

but it's clearly stated in the bible, that if you feel bad for all the bad things u did in your life, god would forgive you, and there is hope for you. just to add, God isnt considered petty that would remember every time u cursed or commited a smaller sin.

to sum up this, if u can look at your life, and objectively say that you haven't done anything wrong, and have apologised for things u did wrong, then you can "sleep" in peace (death is considered to be like sleep, if u're unhappy when u're awake you prolly sleep bad aswell)
if u can't say, then you're (your soul maybe) gonna torment yourself for all eternety regreting those bad things you've done

that's just my view, i'm not a preacher so don't take this for granted.

[EDIT] @smurflastaka- i'm sorry about your loss man, but i believe that if he was a good man as u claim, he's in a good place now. try to keep that in mind

KeweLi

01-14-2008, 14:42

God loves us, he died for our sins and gave us salvation. It is the greatest gift you can possibly have and it is up to you if you accept it.

"But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."
Romans 5:8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGwchcv1U1c

klemen

01-14-2008, 16:10

God can be very cruel. I am reading bible every day.

There is a person in the bible called "Job" (in slovene ofc). He never cursed on god, he did all as the law said, we could say that he was without a sin.

God wanted to test his faith so he killed all his children, took him all his money and earth and make Job sick. it all dissapeared in 1 minute.

Kiel

01-14-2008, 16:46

NumbAndTimeless

01-14-2008, 19:20

heaven as its shown in the bible (pearly gates and such), and hell for that matter as well, are ,guess what, again metaphors. they refer to our state of soul. christians/jesus believe there is something good in every one of us (no matter what preachers preach, this is one of the fundemental messages), and that we partially feel bad if we had done something wrong.

That is Human Psychology. And again, I would like you to Define me the term "Soul" because i don't know this concept, Never saw any empirical evidence for such a thing, please do provide me with empirical evidence as well.

Now about Metaphors, they are subjective, which means that a individual can interpret in any way he/she wishes to. Thus making it not VALID.

What is "Good"? Is it Universal? Is there a Universal "Good"? Or is it just a perception of Human beings set by our environment and social life.

therefore, if we spend our life in sin without a sign of regret, when we are finally at our death bed we feel bad for all the things that we have done. heaven is a state when u can look at your life and say: "yeah, i did some bad stuff, but i regret it, i made peace with god (no matter jewish,muslim,christian God is one and the same) but i lived like a good person (more or less)." - u feel the relief
if u did bad things throughout his life, u feel remorse, and that torments you in eternety, burning gates, demons and such were made to ilustrate it to simple folk in the history who were uneducated and couldnt understand the concept of soul.

Define the term "Sin".
Secondly, you are generalizing things, for example a Mentally Ill person won't feel "bad" about the things he/she did because he has no perception of reality.

Again, Mentally Ill people don't have a perception of Reality. And again you claim as if "bad" and "good" are Universal things, which is completely wrong.

Actually, the Demons, Hell gates etc. Were just used as Fear Factors to convey pupils to accept this as a Universal "truth" and to not question it.

So by your logic, you are saying even though a person killed another person, if he/she feels sorry for it and he/she makes "peace" with "god" he/she is forgiven? So If Hitler felt sorry for killing 6 Million Jews and made "peace" with "god" he is forgiven and now he is in heaven? Ridicules.

to sum up this, if u can look at your life, and objectively say that you haven't done anything wrong, and have apologised for things u did wrong, then you can "sleep" in peace (death is considered to be like sleep, if u're unhappy when u're awake you prolly sleep bad aswell)
if u can't say, then you're (your soul maybe) gonna torment yourself for all eternety regreting those bad things you've done

Death is not considered to be like a sleep, its completely different thing. Your body doesn't function when you are dead, you have no electrochemical processes functioning in your brain, thus you absolutely are worthless when you die, you simply are dead.

God loves us, he died for our sins and gave us salvation. It is the greatest gift you can possibly have and it is up to you if you accept it.

"But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."
Romans 5:8

"God" has emotions? How does he produce these emotions? What does Love mean for "god" and is it different from our perception of love? How does "he" "love" us? Does he have electrochemical impulses triggering emotional hormones? Does "he" manage these emotions? Why does "god" have these emotions?

Christ never existed, or you still haven't proved that "he" existed. If you have material which proves it, please be so kind and show us sceptics.

Questions : Why are you atheist ?

Veritas Vos Liberabit.

fatman69

01-15-2008, 17:21

c0ckz

01-15-2008, 18:29

are u certain? before christianity there were maybe hundreds of gods dating more than 2000 years... for ex. the Egypt gods; the pagan gods and so on... if the xian God would have created us why ppl believe in other gods but him? its pure bull**** and you must be too ignorant to deny the truth.

fatman69

01-15-2008, 20:06

yes, but how many of those god had written proofs of something they did for their people? go worship a ****in stone and see what he'll do for you..

bible is full or miracles our Lord did. crossing the red sea was a miracle. ok, now they found out that it was possible cuz red sea was very shallow at 1 part,so ppl could get across, but it still is a miracle for escaping out of egypt , moses was not an explorer so what kind of thing forced him to go that way.
those 7 torments of egypt people, ending with death of first born sons, there are even some records about that..

and people believed in other stuff cuz god didn't show himself to them. they worshiped pagan stuff like egyptians, greeks, romans did...other civs also.

now i guess some smartass will come and ask "why didnt he show himself?"
to answer in advance, i don't ****in know i'm not the god, now am I?

c0ckz

01-15-2008, 20:19

written proofs? dont make me laugh pls... there's absolutely no evidence that anything which is written in bible actually happen; the trick with the red sea its simple... heard of flux/reflux ? n/c ; dont tell me that greeks,romans or Egypt ppl werent 900% smarter that moses and his men, so since almost every ancient civilization worshiped a god(s) it must have been some miracles happening back then right?

ps. as far as i know Moses lived with the egyptians so they probably taught him how to write and i bet on my balls he wrote the bible himself... case closed.

NumbAndTimeless

01-15-2008, 20:29

alright numb and timeless make a ****in philosophy out of everything...you know what, believe or don't believe i really don't give a ****.it's not good of me, but i'm not in a mood to explain that stuff to people who just don't want to understand it. if u never had good experience of religion it's not my fault.

I actually had quite an experience with Religion, so your argument fails right there. Next, I do want to understand but you just don't have anything to offer me, as i said any empirical evidence will do for me, Logical arguments on top of that and it’s like a cake with a cherry on top. Yummy.

you/re an OK guy IMO but you belong to a group of people that i really hate. questioning everything, not trying to question 1 thing, for 2000 years(and more if u count jews) people believed, i think there have been probably 3-4 billion believers so far, some of them were very educated people, and u come and question their beliefs? who the ****in hell are you?

So you are connecting the age of the item and then concluding that it must be very valid if it’s that old, right? Now about "who the ****in hell are you?” simple question, and I’ll give you a simple answer, I'm A Sceptic. I want answers to what I don't know, what's wrong with that? Tell me why wouldn't I question a 2000 year old book? Why? I have the freedom to questions anything, to criticise anything, that is what my Country allows me and that is what I will do. You don't need to be "something" to questions things.

Now about "who are you to question their faith", Give me one logical answer on why Religion/Faith/Beliefs shouldn't be scrutinized. Why is it different if you criticise a Prime Minister and when you criticise a Religion? There should be no acceptations on any kind of area, ANY. Everything can be and will be criticised.

if u don't believe, fine by me, but u're questioning something that has been around for a long time, and there were proofs that jesus and such people had existed. the only problem is not the fact that u don't have enough eveidence to believe, it is the fact that you DON'T want to believe, and i really can't help u with that

Alright, why wouldn't I want to questions something which has been long around? About your proofs, please do show me your empirical proofs and I'll be more then glad to see those proofs.

Ehh, here comes the old "You have all the facts, but you just don't want to believe", Please mate this has been used to death, If I had all the Facts, and everyone was able to see them, then "god" would be easily proven and I would be crowned a lunatic, BUT it’s the other way around, simply because you have no proofs, you claim you have proofs but you never showed them, you think that you can prove something with itself, such as claiming that the bible is a proof for "god", and claiming that "god" wrote the bible thus proving "god" with the bible is simply ridicules fallacy of logic. Furthermore, you have absolutely no logical arguments etc.

Now please provide me with Empirical Evidence, because this is just going in circles.

yes, but how many of those god had written proofs of something they did for their people? go worship a ****in stone and see what he'll do for you..

Err; Horus for instance is exactly the same as how Jesus is described. Horus was born in 25 December, Jesus was born in 25 December, Horus had 12 Slaves, Jesus had 12 Disciples, Horus died and after 3 days got resurrected, Jesus died and after 3 days got resurrected. Quite a coincidence right? There are many "gods" with this story line.
Ra the Egyptian "god" is carved in stones with written hieroglyphs’ etc.

bible is full or miracles our Lord did. crossing the red sea was a miracle. ok, now they found out that it was possible cuz red sea was very shallow at 1 part,so ppl could get across, but it still is a miracle for escaping out of egypt , moses was not an explorer so what kind of thing forced him to go that way.
those 7 torments of egypt people, ending with death of first born sons, there are even some records about that..

Yes the bible is full of miracles, but it has more errors too, WAOW...
Give me Empirical Evidence for what you said, and I’ll be gladly to accept them.

and people believed in other stuff cuz god didn't show himself to them. they worshiped pagan stuff like egyptians, greeks, romans did...other civs also.

Yes of course, that’s why they had thousands of "gods", that’s why nowadays we have over 500 thousand religions which all claim to have the truth.
Oh please spare me with your mambo jumbo.

now i guess some smartass will come and ask "why didnt he show himself?"
to answer in advance, i don't ****in know i'm not the god, now am I?

Actually a "smartass" would ask you to show him/her Empirical Evidence.
And you would answer “But the bible has all etc." And we will go in circular motion again. How pity.

fatman69

01-16-2008, 19:25

written proofs? dont make me laugh pls... there's absolutely no evidence that anything which is written in bible actually happen; the trick with the red sea its simple... heard of flux/reflux ? n/c ;

ps. as far as i know Moses lived with the egyptians so they probably taught him how to write and i bet on my balls he wrote the bible himself... case closed.

first, that's what i said about red sea, it was the shift of the tides, but the fact that they used it is also miracolous. second, moses didn't write the bible, bible was written by many people.if u're gonna question who wrote it u can question the whole history, it could alll be fake, u haven't seen anything for yourself aswell so you don't make any point

@ TheNumbAndTimeless- first of all, do you have like a banner in your room that says EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE? it's the only word u use...and ,btw i need to give you "empirical evidence" of what? the only sole purpose of bible is to read it and find guidelines for your life. you think there aren't any EMPIRICAL messages in it for you to improve your life, your EMPIRICAL behavior (i know what empircal menas, but i just tried to point out how repetition is irritating).you think it was written as a history book, or more as phylosophical work? what empirical evidence u need, u want me to send a piece of the plate of 10 commandments to your house???

horrus is ...who? jesus wasn't born on 25 december, it was just taken as any date (we don't know the date, or year for that matter, for sure). can u give me empirical reasons of that horus guy, his life, his 12 servants . please ,be so kind to continue your thesis.

pls give me the errors in the bible (not the metaphorical stories that you deem to be untrue, but real flaws)

no1 can prove god's existence for sure, but you can't prove the genesis of the Earth, but u somehow believe that. or the "big bang" theory, it can't be proved but we believe it. if a scientist writes down something you can't prove or understand you still believe him. if a phylosopher writes something down that you also can't understand or prove, he's talking smack. that's real "mambo jumbo"

no1 forbids you to question anything but to deny the existance of something is another thing

500 000 religion= no, very few religions, many sub-religions, all deriving from either christianity, islam, judaism, budhism and hynduism

hope to see your reply soon :D

NumbAndTimeless

01-16-2008, 21:24

first of all, do you have like a banner in your room that says EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE? it's the only word u use...and ,btw i need to give you "empirical evidence" of what? the only sole purpose of bible is to read it and find guidelines for your life. you think there aren't any EMPIRICAL messages in it for you to improve your life, your EMPIRICAL behavior (i know what empal menas, but i just tried to point out how repetition is irritating).you think it was written as a history book, or more as phylosophical work? what empirical evidence u need, u want me to send a piece of the plate of 10 commandments to your house???

My repetition deems only one point, for you two acknowledge the word, and for you to acknowledge that I won't leave it till you will give me it.

Why would someone need guidelines for life from a 2000 year old book? There are so many up-to-date books who describe social life and give many views on how to construct you're life. Instead of searching guidelines from a 2000 year old book, you should check nowadays books, they are constructed for these particular years, as such was the "bible" for its age, new books are for these ages.

I need empirical evidence to prove every detail which is pointed out in the bible, every possible historic event described in the bible should be under scrutinizing and should be criticised and until no factual details are published to prove things present in the bible it will be seen as a fictional book and not a factual book.

Philosophy is a subjective thing, you interpret things in your own view, you build your opinion by looking at other people's opinion, thus trying to improve it every time. Philosophy is very different to Historic Documents, one is subjective one is constructed by factual details throughout time.

horrus is ...who? jesus wasn't born on 25 december, it was just taken as any date (we don't know the date, or year for that matter, for sure). can u give me empirical reasons of that horus guy, his life, his 12 servants . please ,be so kind to continue your thesis.

horrus is ...who? jesus wasn't born on 25 december, it was just taken as any date (we don't know the date, or year for that matter, for sure). can u give me empirical reasons of that horus guy, his life, his 12 servants . please ,be so kind to continue your thesis.

Horus is an Ancient Egyptian god.

I also forgot the mention the "Virgin Birth" thing.
Here is the link:
http://books.google.com/books?id=PbyDxabXrqgC&pg=PA592&lpg=PA592&dq=history+of+horus&source=web&ots=eiLFqb8uFI&sig=KepptxyswwthaxfBJP72ZIV41q0

pls give me the errors in the bible (not the metaphorical stories that you deem to be untrue, but real flaws)

I gave flaws; please do read all my posts in the other thread. I gave flaws that the bible says the world is flat; I gave many textual flaws etc.

no1 can prove god's existence for sure, but you can't prove the genesis of the Earth, but u somehow believe that. or the "big bang" theory, it can't be proved but we believe it. if a scientist writes down something you can't prove or understand you still believe him. if a phylosopher writes something down that you also can't understand or prove, he's talking smack. that's real "mambo jumbo"

For sure? Just prove the existence of such a deity, if you cannot than by that the deity does not exist, it’s quite easy to understand.

We can't prove it 100% of course, but WE actually have factual details, empirical evidence, logical arguments to pursue our findings, we don't just assume things out of thin air, scientists run hundred of tests, test hundred of hypothesis, do hundred and thousands of calculations to find the best possible answer to a question. The Big Bang Theory at this moment is the most satisfactory answer a scientist can give you, because it has facts backing it up, it has logical grounds, they can provide you with millions of calculation to allow you to scrutinize and even if you find a problem they will be so happy that you did and helped them to make the theory better, because in contrast with religious people, the scientific world accepts scrutiny and accepts criticism because it will help develop their work.

Philosophy is the ancient Science. We learn many things from Philosophy, many philosophers have taught us so much, but Philosophers don't try to prove something or to impose a view upon someone, they try to speculate about life, about things which bother human beings, about different aspects of life, unknown things, they have a level of mastery in debates, they create ideologies and their opinions are valued, BUT that doesn’t make them speak the truth.

no1 forbids you to question anything but to deny the existance of something is another thing

Hmm, what’s denying the existence different from scrutinizing something or criticising something? It’s just another form of criticism, please understand what I mean by scrutinizing, if I see all the facts, i will decide based on the weight those facts have and which side has more facts, thus I will criticize the other side for claiming to tell the truth but having absolutely no facts.

500 000 religion= no, very few religions, many sub-religions, all deriving from either christianity, islam, judaism, budhism and hynduism

Err... Actually there are many, you can actually create a religion anytime you like, like for example a newly created Religion is The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

fatman69

01-16-2008, 21:46

NumbAndTimeless

01-16-2008, 22:27

which today's book can u take for guideliness? these were written as universal advice so they are pretty actual right now. ofc unless some1 like you decides to make his own interpretation...i agree some messages need rephrasing, rethinking but most of them are pretty much valid. you think 10 commandments can't be aplied now? you think jesus's messages aren't appliable in everyday life?

Firstly, "Jesus" messages were already implied "before" he ever was named, Buddhism already had taught these things, they just didn't say "god" in their "commandments". Secondly, Morals is a perception, it’s not Universal, there is no Universal Morality. Before, it was alright to sacrifice someone in rituals to please a deity, but now humans are more intelligent and have stopped such things, but that doesn't mean in their time it was wrong, even though now we might think that, they might have had different issues, opinions etc.

that link u send me isn't proof. that is a book just as a bible is. what makes you think it's not a forgery? when u think of it, that guy who wrote it could be lieing. then again if u decide to believe historians, u got roman historians who speak of Jesus (don't have time nor will too look'em up, do it yourself if u need empirical evidence). or historians that speak of christianity are liers, in contrast to other who are telling the truth??

Its not? Firstly that is a book which has historical Context. Secondly its not fiction it actually scrutinizes and criticises things.

Waow, well I could think millions of things, I could think that the person who wrote it can fly, i can also think that the person who wrote it might be a transsexual who wants to rule the world by writing a book against "Jesus" but I take a realistic stance and absorb the data shown to me and judge it with outer sources and decide whether it is valid or not.

Romans spoke of "Jesus" after 70-100 years of his "death", now this is begging the question; Why isn’t there any historical evidence during the time "Jesus" lived? Weren’t there no historians around that time to see these miracles things happen? Isn’t that the occupation of a historian? How can all those historians living at that time miss this HUGE historical moment in their time? Ridicules.

Historians aren't Bias. They don't take a stance and twist the truth to their benefit. They describe everything which happens without any accept ions. You won't see historians being selective of things and missing things and creating huge lines of history. That is why we have huge information on almost every civilization that ever existed. So until a Historian finds out something which might contradict his/she's books he/she will not be seen as one-sided, or being bias. A person can write anything about everything and claim it was a past event, but without any proof and without historical documents and evidence it will be immediately dismissed of being an historical book, at least by the Intellectual Pupils.

big bang theory doesn't have any proofs, it's just pile of good thesis. i'm not questioning it, i believe that it was like that. but not becuase i discovered it myself, but some valid source of info told me. by this "valid source" i imply university professors, i think their credibility is solid, though they are just people.

You lack of knowledge on the Big Bang theory. Just a pile of good thesis? Eh.
If it wasn't for the overwhelming facts towards the Big Bang Theory there wouldn’t be so much support. I already told facts proving or indicating a truth to the Big Bang Theory on the other thread, please don't be lazy and do read those facts.

Another thing you do wrong is accept things without scrutinizing things, if a Professor of Oxford University told me something, I wouldn't accept it just because of his/hers educational achievements, that doesn't affect me, I rather question it and see if he/she can back it up, and until I am not satisfied I won't accept it as a fact. Just because a person cleverer then you claims something doesn't mean he/she is saying the truth, truth presents itself when its scrutinized and criticised over, and over, and over again to prove it holds, and that it doesn’t collapse every time it will get scrutinized.

as i said, if a scientistells you smth, you'd believe him. there are many educated people giving proof that a lot of stuff from bible (jesus and stuff ) were real.but i guess u didn't think their oppinion was credible. how would you explain the shroud of Torin (can't rememebr how it's called , 2 lazy too look)??

As I said about the thing about more intellectual people telling you something and just because of their intellectuality you should accept it as a fact, that is not how it goes, you should scrutinize and criticise every time, and I mean every time. No matter what person you are talking to, or what information he/she gives you, unless of course its obvious he/she is telling a fact and you recognise it.

Err, again just because they are Educated doesn't mean they shouldn’t be scrutinized, show me things which were proven to be right in the bible and by all means I will be more than happy to scrutinize them and see if they hold and not collapse.

criticising something would be actually commenting that some parts are wrong. saying that jesus didn't exist is... well, denying something of existence

Err, that is what I am exactly doing, I am criticising the historical evidence of "Jesus", which makes me come to the conclusion that this "Jesus" never existed because of the lack of evidence.
You can criticise something as a whole, you don't need to criticise only small parts of it, even though that is fundamentally much more efficient.

The.Traveller

01-17-2008, 18:14

Here a funny short story:
" It was much like one time, I met a guy in the street at the end of the night. He was looking for a place to sleep for the night but all the hotels were booked up. On a whim I offered him my place, we had a spare mattress, he could sleep on there for the night. AAHH but the distrust between us was interesting. Him worrying I was some strange man taking him back to my place, me worrying that I was taking a strange man back who might steal my things. It took a little persuading on both parts, but in the end, he agreed. The next day, on waking, he thanked me, but more importantly, thanked God that I showed up in his time of need!! What a crock!!! "
ME-an atheist,HE-a Christian

Question for theists:Why would God send an Atheist to help a Christian?

imaginary

01-18-2008, 15:49

Question for theists:Why would God send an Atheist to help a Christian?
Because God was in the mood for sarcasm, chillin

fatman69

01-18-2008, 19:20

Question for theists:Why would God send an Atheist to help a Christian?

being an atheist doesn't mean you're a bad person nor does being a christian make u a good person(ok if you're a true christian, then yes). i dont think god hates atheists...

Firstly, "Jesus" messages were already implied "before" he ever was named, Buddhism already had taught these things, they just didn't say "god" in their "commandments".

some of them were and some weren't, and they were unknown to the euro-middle eastern part of the world. judaism was a mainly here, or some other, so u can't say that they weren't needed.

Secondly, Morals is a perception, it’s not Universal, there is no Universal Morality. Before, it was alright to sacrifice someone in rituals to please a deity, but now humans are more intelligent and have stopped such things, but that doesn't mean in their time it was wrong, even though now we might think that, they might have had different issues, opinions etc.

i'm talking about moral that prevails in today's world and u know it, you're trying to discredit my point through sarcastic comments. cheap shot. even in past, human sacrifice was unacceptable in all of reasonably "modern" world of that time.

Its not? Firstly that is a book which has historical Context. Secondly its not fiction it actually scrutinizes and criticises things.
Waow, well I could think millions of things, I could think that the person who wrote it can fly, i can also think that the person who wrote it might be a transsexual who wants to rule the world by writing a book against "Jesus" but I take a realistic stance and absorb the data shown to me and judge it with outer sources and decide whether it is valid or not.

yes but you don't have your "EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE" for it, now do you?u chose to think that person who wrote the book about horus is telling the truth and people who wrote the bible are just liars and copycats. now tell me, aren't you a bit unobjective??

Romans spoke of "Jesus" after 70-100 years of his "death", now this is begging the question; Why isn’t there any historical evidence during the time "Jesus" lived? Weren’t there no historians around that time to see these miracles things happen? Isn’t that the occupation of a historian? How can all those historians living at that time miss this HUGE historical moment in their time? Ridicules.

jesus's life wasn't a huge thing in roman's lives. he was a rebel which they nailed to the cross. big ****in deal, the nailed billions of people to the cross, he was just a number to them. his importance grew in time, and came to this what u have today.

Historians aren't Bias. They don't take a stance and twist the truth to their benefit. They describe everything which happens without any accept ions. You won't see historians being selective of things and missing things and creating huge lines of history. That is why we have huge information on almost every civilization that ever existed. So until a Historian finds out something which might contradict his/she's books he/she will not be seen as one-sided, or being bias. A person can write anything about everything and claim it was a past event, but without any proof and without historical documents and evidence it will be immediately dismissed of being an historical book, at least by the Intellectual Pupils.

and if they aren't bias how do you explain the fact that they spoke about him? they probably started being bias at that time,huh?

You lack of knowledge on the Big Bang theory. Just a pile of good thesis? Eh.
If it wasn't for the overwhelming facts towards the Big Bang Theory there wouldn’t be so much support.

i guess u don't read my posts, which really tells me how self-centered you are. don't validating other people's opinion.. i said i do believe in big bang theory, but you could scrutinze(yes another word that could go to your banner next to empirical) that theory as well.

Another thing you do wrong is accept things without scrutinizing things, if a Professor of Oxford University told me something, I wouldn't accept it just because of his/hers educational achievements, that doesn't affect me, I rather question it and see if he/she can back it up, and until I am not satisfied I won't accept it as a fact. Just because a person cleverer then you claims something doesn't mean he/she is saying the truth, truth presents itself when its scrutinized and criticised over, and over, and over again to prove it holds, and that it doesn’t collapse every time it will get scrutinized.

you confuse scrutinizing and just plain doubting, you can doubt that he's wrong, but if a person reaches a certain academic level, it means that he's probably not talking bullcrap. i'm not saying i'd believe my profs 100%, but i think that there are areas(that are btw their line of job) that they about better than me. it would be really idiotic trying to compete with them unless you spend as much as hour on researc (no googlin, doing real research out of books in the scientific library). i really wouldn't want to spend so many hours to do such things, and only to finally found out that the guy was right after all.... higher level of education doesn't necesarily mean that some1 is smarter but it certainly gives him an advantage (university level of education especially). if you can't understand that, then your stubborness is really sad...

Err, that is what I am exactly doing, I am criticising the historical evidence of "Jesus", which makes me come to the conclusion that this "Jesus" never existed because of the lack of evidence.

there are evidence, as i've stated numerous times but you don't read i guess, or you choose not to take them as valid because they don't support your theory. on the contrary, you decide to take a source of, at best, similar credibility and claim it's valid. who's being subjective in his "SCRUTINIZING"??

furthermore, just came to tell you that i'll no longer discuss this topic. you either don't read my posts (which is immature IMO) or you chose not to take other people's opinion as credible (which is immature and arrogant). i don't have time for that kind of one-way discussion here. enjoy, m8

[GOD]Marko

01-18-2008, 20:49

You ****ing stupid or something?! The god exists in us, not as a being, as imagination of perfection, its abstract. You are a full proof of someone who has very low ability to understand things. When I saw this post in details, I believe that you will never understand anything ... (I'm talking to Numb)
Did someone ever explained to you in school what is "god"? Or you never wanted to listen, yes.." I'm imba atheist, I don't believe in god and all that crap, I just care about things that deny its existence. "
When someone tells you: may god be with you. - it means good luck and take care, don't do bull****, and don't make mistakes that will make you regret later. Its how a person acts in life, morals, not some **** like: god exists as a creature, devil, demons, vampires, angels, the holy grail, Its all a metaphor! describing things in everyday life.
www.killwithme.com Will you click yes or no! Thats what its all about -.-
I will not reply to you anymore. If you don't understand something, its your problem, not mine.

The.Traveller

01-18-2008, 21:00

Because God was in the mood for sarcasm, chillin

He must have watched too many British comedies :clap:

NumbAndTimeless

01-19-2008, 02:55

some of them were and some weren't, and they were unknown to the euro-middle eastern part of the world. judaism was a mainly here, or some other, so u can't say that they weren't needed.

For a civilization to survive, they will need to follow a set of rules and regulations. You will not see a civilization survive by allowing killing between each other, allowing different things which will destroy them. Rome could have survived without the teachings of "Jesus" if we even can call it "teachings".

i'm talking about moral that prevails in today's world and u know it, you're trying to discredit my point through sarcastic comments. cheap shot. even in past, human sacrifice was unacceptable in all of reasonably "modern" world of that time.

No I’m not trying to discredit your point, I'm just trying to show you that Moral's are completely perceptions of human beings, they can change quite quickly. And about in the past, of course they had their reasons for their sacrifices, they wanted to please a deity, and that was quite logical that time, but of course now it seems very immoral and very cruel, but back then it was completely normal.

yes but you don't have your "EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE" for it, now do you?u chose to think that person who wrote the book about horus is telling the truth and people who wrote the bible are just liars and copycats. now tell me, aren't you a bit unobjective??[quote]

Actually I do, Because by reading that book, I will have a fact told to me, or a set of words told by the author as "facts", seen a fact's by the author, now I of course will not accept that easy, I for one, go and research on what the author said, and why he/she said it, I will go find what Horus was, what it did, when it became to be etc. I will find historical documents; I will find Hieroglyphs which are available EVERYWHERE as normal Pictures. So if you were curious like me, you would have gone and researched what the author SAID and find out why he/she said it, comments on the book etc.

The Bible has been scrutinized so MUCH and so many times, but yet again people still tend to follow it, even though thousands of books have been printed showing errors in the bible etc.

[quote]jesus's life wasn't a huge thing in roman's lives. he was a rebel which they nailed to the cross. big ****in deal, the nailed billions of people to the cross, he was just a number to them. his importance grew in time, and came to this what u have today.

Oh please, so what if he wasn't big of a deal, the so called wonders he performed and the ones that are claimed he performed MUST have been spread and talked about, now you are trying to tell me that NO Historian was there to hear people talk about the wonders Jesus performed? Bullocks.

and if they aren't bias how do you explain the fact that they spoke about him? they probably started being bias at that time,huh?

Spoke about whom? Jesus? So, why would there be bias if a Historian speaks of someone?

i guess u don't read my posts, which really tells me how self-centered you are. don't validating other people's opinion.. i said i do believe in big bang theory, but you could scrutinze(yes another word that could go to your banner next to empirical) that theory as well.

No mate, I read all of your post, and yes I saw that you said you believed in the Big Bang, and yes you can scrutinize the Big Bang theory, BUT it will still hold water, which makes it much stronger.

you confuse scrutinizing and just plain doubting, you can doubt that he's wrong, but if a person reaches a certain academic level, it means that he's probably not talking bullcrap. i'm not saying i'd believe my profs 100%, but i think that there are areas(that are btw their line of job) that they about better than me. it would be really idiotic trying to compete with them unless you spend as much as hour on researc (no googlin, doing real research out of books in the scientific library). i really wouldn't want to spend so many hours to do such things, and only to finally found out that the guy was right after all.... higher level of education doesn't necesarily mean that some1 is smarter but it certainly gives him an advantage (university level of education especially). if you can't understand that, then your stubborness is really sad...

No, I don't mistake scrutinizing with just plain doubting.
I agree with you on that you have to have a certain research done to actually scrutinize PHDs etc, and yes you might find that he/she was right, BUT it will still make you feel better, because you actually did something to find that out, you won't have any doubt anymore, you will know many things about the field you will scrutinize, so why wouldn’t you do it? You are the one who is benefiting from it after all.

there are evidence, as i've stated numerous times but you don't read i guess, or you choose not to take them as valid because they don't support your theory. on the contrary, you decide to take a source of, at best, similar credibility and claim it's valid. who's being subjective in his "SCRUTINIZING"??

Sincerely I have not seen any evidence since we started this debate, and please do correct me but as I read through all of your post, you have no pointed out ANY evidence whatsoever.
Book with numerous facts and numerous resources put into it is not equivalent with a book which just assumes things and writes some primitive moral laws, such as the Bible.

furthermore, just came to tell you that i'll no longer discuss this topic. you either don't read my posts (which is immature IMO) or you chose not to take other people's opinion as credible (which is immature and arrogant). i don't have time for that kind of one-way discussion here. enjoy, m8

I read all your posts without missing any. I take other people's opinion and criticises them if they don't seem wise opinions.

Farewell.

You ****ing stupid or something?! The god exists in us, not as a being, as imagination of perfection, its abstract. You are a full proof of someone who has very low ability to understand things. When I saw this post in details, I believe that you will never understand anything ... (I'm talking to Numb)
Did someone ever explained to you in school what is "god"? Or you never wanted to listen, yes...” I'm imba atheist, I don't believe in god and all that crap; I just care about things that deny its existence. "

Where does "god" exist in us? Define "god" please. Define "Perfection", What is perfection?

No one in my school ever explained what is "god", because no one could... I only had to ask 1 question, Tell me the definition of the term "god", and I guess the discussion was over then.

Oh please, stop with you "I want to be funny, and want to look "cool" with my "****" words and "Bull****" words", Pity.

When someone tells you: may god be with you. - it means good luck and take care, don't do bull****, and don't make mistakes that will make you regret later. Its how a person acts in life, morals, not some **** like: god exists as a creature, devil, demons, vampires, angels, the holy grail, Its all a metaphor! describing things in everyday life.
www.killwithme.com Will you click yes or no! Thats what its all about -.-
I will not reply to you anymore. If you don't understand something, its your problem, not mine.

Why would "May god be with you" mean "good luck and take care"? So "god" is luck and care? He/she/it is a probability? A Feeling? Make up your mind.

Farewell.

obey.my.dreamz

01-19-2008, 03:23

may god be with you
it's actually a made-up sentence inspired by starwars's jedi's saying "may the force be with you "

xD

[GOD]Marko

01-19-2008, 09:33

yes but it means the same :) and its contra lol made-up sentence inspired by god for starwars force.

Tleilaxu

01-19-2008, 11:16

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/8987/1193664349936kj6.jpg

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/3653/1195508228352os5.jpg

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/7637/1195508444222pd8.jpg

`AVAX

01-19-2008, 11:20

Science: 1
Faith: 0

I think it as it would be VERY stupid to be a man totaly given to faith.

NumbAndTimeless

01-19-2008, 16:45

Beautiful Post Tleilaxu.
I have spoken of some mistakes Religious people make, but you quite frankly summed all up there is to say.

The.Traveller

01-19-2008, 16:55

A man without religion is like a fish without bycicle.
If thousands of years ago religion had a value,at least for the people from the low class,nowadays religion is a lame excuse for the inability of taking responsibility of our own actions/mistakes.
So whatever we,atheists,would give as a proof,the other part,theists,will always find explanations-which are more of a jibba jabba-for the sake of keeping alive the belief in some deity who will forgive them and offer a warm sweet place in heaven.
It doesn't do to dwell on dreams and ignore the reality.No matter if we created this reality,it is still more real than those stories from teh Bible.

[SyS]-SlayeR

01-19-2008, 18:32

I'm not awaiting from pupils who have better things to do like playing Dota,.

very nice example did u think a lot? that means all dota players are pupils for u?

fatman69

01-19-2008, 20:05

Beautiful Post Tleilaxu.
I have spoken of some mistakes Religious people make, but you quite frankly summed all up there is to say.

y and he made a mockery of religion... which really show how ignorante he is...all those quotes and disbelief derives from bad interpretation of the bible made by simple-minded people.

and don't give me that crap that u can interpret it in many ways. i'll give you a simple example: if you've heard of story (or cartoon for that matter) "Hunchback of Notre Damme", please tell me, is the moral of that story:
A) That even a cripple man wih a half a meter lump on his back can score with a French chick somehow; or
B) That inner beauty is more important than outer???

in your interpretation of the Bible, you all chose the A type of answer, not for one second thinking of deeper meaning. punishing children with a stick my ass, metaphor u gotta make children that for every deed there is a consequence.
again, if you're too simple-minded that you can't work out those metaphors by yourself, then don't try to take those messages literally....

[NOTE: yes, i know i said i won't post anymore, refering to arguing with TheNumbAndTimeless (seemed like we were the only here) but i just had to comment Tlielaxu's post. that stuff and quotes were just plain retarded]

`AVAX

01-19-2008, 22:01

He didn't mock religion, he just showed the truth.

fatman69

01-19-2008, 22:07

He didn't mock religion, he just showed the truth.

lol, yes he showed the truth from some ignorant's (prolly his as well) point of view. i said, if you're really gonna dispute that stuff that was written, read it thoroughly...

NumbAndTimeless

01-20-2008, 23:00

lol, yes he showed the truth from some ignorant's (prolly his as well) point of view. i said, if you're really gonna dispute that stuff that was written, read it thoroughly...

4 Pages of posts, no answer to any question.
Great.

The.Traveller

01-20-2008, 23:21

4 Pages of posts, no answer to any question.
Great.

This tells us pretty much already ...

fatman69

01-21-2008, 18:13

well religion is a persnal choice. i don't think we should discuss this much further since it's pointless. just try to read some stuff more carefully and myb you'll get an idea that religion isn't a bad thing necesarily...just sometimes done and interpreted badly..

The.Traveller

01-21-2008, 21:15

Discussing won't harm anyone.It is not a matter of changing the other's mind.It is a matter of who provides more arguments for and against one another.
Each one has his own opinion,but that doesnt mean we should lock ourselves in the house and plug our ears only because certain people do not agree with us.
Religion isn't a bad thing,ofc all fairy tales are a good thing.It gives hopes and something to be happy for,whatever that something is...

fatman69

01-21-2008, 21:49

Religion isn't a bad thing,ofc all fairy tales are a good thing.It gives hopes and something to be happy for,whatever that something is...

man oh man u had to write that sarcastic comment. you b*****... bad boy :D. i'll refrain myself from commenting (somehow)

The.Traveller

01-21-2008, 22:08

man oh man u had to write that sarcastic comment. you b*****... bad boy :D. i'll refrain myself from commenting (somehow)

Religious people should be understanding and forgive us,"the sinners",who dnt believe in God.
Then where from such a bad behaviour? :) I guess not the Bible..?

fatman69

02-06-2008, 21:12

well we are supposed to forgive, but we aren't jedi or budists, we have feelings and we are passionate about our religion. our religion is based, among other things, upon love, and love is passionate.ergo, such an emotional response, i'm not mad at any1 but i do react

ribacbacri

02-07-2008, 00:04

V.V.V

02-11-2008, 21:51

Everyone is entitled to it's own opinion and can believe in whatever he wants to.

I'll just say 1 thing. You sad that we don't have prof that God exist, i sad you don't have prof that he don't exists.

Don't you people read all of the posts before?
I can even dispute god's existence with science but thats to time consuming, furthermore just god's characteristics are completely contradicting so thats another thing.

But the funniest one is, well since i cannot dispute god's existence, I'll use that to my advantage, oh can i can i??

Disprove me the Existence of Fairy Tails
Disprove me the Existence of Santa Claus
Disprove me the Existence of Flying Spaghetti Monster
Disprove me the Existence of The Crab Monster with 2 bear Paws who is called Bob
Disprove me the Existence of Pink Flesh Eating Unicorn

Please when you finish the above, I got a bag of these.

fatman69

02-12-2008, 01:56

V.V.V

02-12-2008, 02:11

there are few crucial differences... no1 ever claimed to have seen those crabs/unicorns/what-nots...without agressive abusage of drugs and alcohol that is...
god/jesus were claimed to have existed and been seen. you don't have a single report on seeing of santa claus, millions of people claimed to have seen jesis and virgin mary. how s0?

Billions of Children claim to see Santa Claus.
Thousands of People believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and they as you have a "Holly Book" and have even a graph which shows why global Warming Occurs.

About god and jesus, you only have the bible to claim such a thing, everything written about jesus was down about 70-100 Years after the so proclaimed death of this jesus. And that only done by Christian Historians. Thousands of Historians lived during Jesus's life and none wrote about him, isn't that interesting?

About Virgin Birth, how can you actually go against all natural laws? Even when you see birth's given everyday, the impossibility of such a thing is ridicules. Now you ask how so? Well, how so millions of people claimed to have seen Thor, Zeus, Horus, Rah and many thousands of gods? How so?

and here come your beloved empirical evidence:
- spaghetti can't fly, it sticks closely to the ground- therefore, spaghetti monster theory=bye bye

Nope, Flying Spaghetti Monster is Omnipotent, Omnicient, All powerful, Almighty and all those things. But the best thing is, FSM is Invisible, so you cannot detect him with anything. So no sorry no bye bye for my Beloved Flying Spaghetti Monster. Gravity has no effect on my deity, as it doesn't have on your's.

-fairy tales, hm, animals can't talk,therefore, again theory =bye bye

Oh, only animals? Well, how do explain all the Cartoons and Films created for such creatures? All those witnesses, all those Children who believe in them, How so?

- unicorn would be a breed of horse, horses are herbivores=> flesh eating uni=no can do

Uh, well the Unicorn I'm talking about is very Unique, its very supernatural, and can never be detected, it just surrounds us and brings us luck. I have many witnesses who have read the book of the Flesh Eating Pink Unicorn, it makes so much sense.

- crabs live in water so they don't need bear(or bear-like) claws, so why on earth would he have them. evolution took care of that. there might be a crab named Bob though if it comforts you...

The Crab I'm talking about doesn't need water to live, The bear claws are just a mere accessory for his All mightiness.

i know only one thing about religion, and that is that i don't know anything...but neither do you. all i can do is believe, as can you.

but that doesn't give you right to judge other people's choices just like that bcuz that gives other people right to judge your choices. please just stick to the moto: live and let others live.
a world can certainly survive without your meaningless ignorant philosophy

Well, i know a lot of the things surrounding me, since science explains them quite clear.

I don't judge people's choices, i merely criticize their method of choosing.

a world can certainly survive without your meaningless ignorant philosophy

Eh. [Silence Strikes me]

ribacbacri

02-12-2008, 04:30

I read all the post and you all were contradictory in some of your post, thats why i answered in philosofical matter to you original question.

As for proving and disapproving matters, how can u know know if i am real or am i just computer A.I. playing with your mind, can you prove that i exist that i am person. And if u can how can u be so sure that your prove is actually a prove??
You really so much on science but science disapproves older theory so it can prove new theory so older theory wasn't actually a prof so how can u be so sure that new theory is the correct one? What keeps it from being disprove some other day?? Do u understand what am i trying to say??

fatman69

02-12-2008, 14:32

Billions of Children claim to see Santa Claus.
Thousands of People believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and they as you have a "Holly Book" and have even a graph which shows why global Warming Occurs.
which people and where?some data pls...

About god and jesus, you only have the bible to claim such a thing, everything written about jesus was down about 70-100 Years after the so proclaimed death of this jesus. And that only done by Christian Historians. Thousands of Historians lived during Jesus's life and none wrote about him, isn't that interesting?
the interesting part is that roman historian wrote about jesus, can't recall which one and where and i'm too lazy to bother myself with that...

About Virgin Birth, how can you actually go against all natural laws? Even when you see birth's given everyday, the impossibility of such a thing is ridicules. Now you ask how so? Well, how so millions of people claimed to have seen Thor, Zeus, Horus, Rah and many thousands of gods? How so?

oh so i guess i'm adressing the Almighty Creator now that tells me that it is impossible??there is/were/will be a lot of things that we don't understand, that means nothing

Nope, Flying Spaghetti Monster is Omnipotent, Omnicient, All powerful, Almighty and all those things. But the best thing is, FSM is Invisible, so you cannot detect him with anything. So no sorry no bye bye for my Beloved Flying Spaghetti Monster. Gravity has no effect on my deity, as it doesn't have on your's.
oh so your FSM is a deity, aha so you do accept religion? finally, doesn't really matter what kind of relgion it is...

Oh, only animals? Well, how do explain all the Cartoons and Films created for such creatures? All those witnesses, all those Children who believe in them, How so?
there are a lot of things too complex for children. why bother their minds with such trivialitis of explaining that cats and dogs can't talk...

Uh, well the Unicorn I'm talking about is very Unique, its very supernatural, and can never be detected, it just surrounds us and brings us luck. I have many witnesses who have read the book of the Flesh Eating Pink Unicorn, it makes so much sense.

The Crab I'm talking about doesn't need water to live, The bear claws are just a mere accessory for his All mightiness.

oh good anoter deity... ok i guess your polytheist, but still it's ok, at least you've accepted religion...

Well, i know a lot of the things surrounding me, since science explains them quite clear.

I don't judge people's choices, i merely criticize their method of choosing.

as i understand you started this thread so some theist would answer questions, i answered them. of you're asking the question and not expecting or validating answers then why do you accept answers that science gives you?

pls, you're just trying to diminish the value of religion, but you got entwined in your philosophy....

Hedene

02-12-2008, 16:51

Either Philosophies of old centuries accept that the Existence of God, But an atheist which beleives science doesn't?

Some answers of science found by philosphists...

V.V.V

02-12-2008, 18:39

which people and where?some data pls...[quote]

http://www.venganza.org/

[quote]the interesting part is that roman historian wrote about jesus, can't recall which one and where and i'm too lazy to bother myself with that...

Yes, Roman Historians wrote about Jesus after the so proclaimed death, about 70-100 years after.

oh so i guess i'm adressing the Almighty Creator now that tells me that it is impossible??there is/were/will be a lot of things that we don't understand, that means nothing

Of course there will be things we won't understand, but does that mean we have to import a Sky Daddy to explain them? Does that mean just because something unknown exists there must be a Supernatural Being out there? Bullocks.

oh so your FSM is a deity, aha so you do accept religion? finally, doesn't really matter what kind of relgion it is...

Oh yes, It is the only Religion which is the true one. FSM Is the true Creator of the Universe, and your god is just a slave of his noodly appendage. And since you cannot disprove my god, he by that must be true and must exist, and thus if FSM exists, he by that is the RULER OF THE UNIVERSE.

I guess you all going to Hell. Pity.

there are a lot of things too complex for children. why bother their minds with such trivialitis of explaining that cats and dogs can't talk...

Oh please, still does that make a difference? Since the majority of kids believe in Santa Claus, and you have absolutely no FACT or Empirical Evidence to prove that Santa Claus exists, thus he Must exist.

oh good anoter deity... ok i guess your polytheist, but still it's ok, at least you've accepted religion...

Nope, by now I'm a Pastafarian. And By that i mean I follow FSM, which by now is the only true god and all of the other religions just are bullocks. And Bob is FMS's friend, they like drinking beer in heaven and going into the striptease clubs in heaven as well.

as i understand you started this thread so some theist would answer questions, i answered them. of you're asking the question and not expecting or validating answers then why do you accept answers that science gives you?

You Answered them? What Are You Blabbering? You absolutely didn't answer any question, yes you attempted to answer about 3 questions and failed miserably, rephrase your sentence again please, you didn't even tackle 1% Of the amount of questions i posted.

I accept Answers from science because, they provide me with Facts, Empirical Evidence and Logical Arguments. They are Reliable and Valid.

As for proving and disapproving matters, how can u know know if i am real or am i just computer A.I. playing with your mind, can you prove that i exist that i am person. And if u can how can u be so sure that your prove is actually a prove??
You really so much on science but science disapproves older theory so it can prove new theory so older theory wasn't actually a prof so how can u be so sure that new theory is the correct one? What keeps it from being disprove some other day?? Do u understand what am i trying to say??

I understand you absolutely.
Yet, you assume that there is an Absolute Proof of everything. But hey... Environment changes, things change, and Humans change, thus ideas and the mere illusion of fact changes as well.
Back back, 2-3 Thousand years ago it was intellectual to pray to gods, and to honor them with merciless rituals and murdering of all kind, Now was that wrong at that time? Wasn't it a fact that they were just honoring their gods? Wasn't that perfectly making sense for them? Of course for that time, the intelligence they possessed and the mere knowledge they had about their surrounding and different things was insufficient, thus resulting in delusional creatures such as gods and ridicules rituals to honor them.

But at modern times, when something gets discovered it might change a whole field, it might bring a whole new field into science. But isn't that the beauty of it? Because Science is never ending, it will change every time something new is discovered, something interesting to add to our knowledge, its the absolute opposite to religion since religion is very stubborn and absolutely never changes, its because they think its an Absolute thing, ridicules just ridicules.

Either Philosophies of old centuries accept that the Existence of God, But an atheist which beleives science doesn't?

Some answers of science found by philosphists...

I Tried so hard to understand what were you trying to say, but i just felt blank, sorry you will have to repeat the statement one more time in a more clear fashion, thanks.

Kazmaer

02-14-2008, 18:47

Yea, yea, Numb and Timeless, I agree with all that, but seriously, get laid basement dweller.

We all know you're an atheist, why do you keep bragging about it?

skywalker3

02-14-2008, 23:44

ribacbacri

02-15-2008, 05:18

Fatman here claimed that Jesus wasnt born on 25th of december ... that we dont know the date for sure

LOOOL !!! ahuauhauhauha so Jesus wasnt born on 25th of december??

then why the f*** do we celebrate CHRISTmas then?

So u admit urself that the bible is a hoax ,right?

pathetic

I am ortodox and we celebrate Christmas on 7 january because our church calendar differs for 14 days. New testament says taht he was born on 25th od decembar but we can't know with 100% accuracy that that 25th of december is 25 december that we celebrate.

I'm sry if i missinterpreted what u sad.

skywalker3

02-15-2008, 08:37

I am ortodox and we celebrate Christmas on 7 january because our church calendar differs for 14 days. New testament says taht he was born on 25th od decembar but we can't know with 100% accuracy that that 25th of december is 25 december that we celebrate.

I'm sry if i missinterpreted what u sad.

ok thanks .

But still ,judgeing by your words it means that your religion doesn`t even know for sure ??

So ,my question is , if your religion has doubts about Christ`s date of birth ,then why do u believe in it anyway? :)
Another proof that religion is so ridiculous...

OMGBergrush

02-16-2008, 04:01

But still ,judgeing by your words it means that your religion doesn`t even know for sure ??

Another proof that religion is so ridiculous...

what is proof? your retarded conclusion based on no knowledge at all? why dont you stop writing bull**** about religion because it will be best for everyone. others wont get offended by your absurd claims and you will save yourself the indignity of looking like an imbecile incapable of comprehending and reasoning

Kazmaer

02-16-2008, 04:10

what is proof? your retarded conclusion based on no knowledge at all? why dont you stop writing bull**** about religion because it will be best for everyone. others wont get offended by your absurd claims and you will save yourself the indignity of looking like an imbecile incapable of comprehending and reasoning

Lijepo si ga ownao, Berg.

Nemožeš disprovati religiju, možeš je samo ismijati do tocke kada che i oni najzadrtiji vjernici prestati da vjeruju.
Religija je prodavanje magle.

pRiMe

02-16-2008, 06:24

ok thanks .

But still ,judgeing by your words it means that your religion doesn`t even know for sure ??

So ,my question is , if your religion has doubts about Christ`s date of birth ,then why do u believe in it anyway? :)
Another proof that religion is so ridiculous...

Religion is ridiculous ?It would be better if i say u are ridiculous.
Everyone except theists got their religion and faith in their god and that is nothing ridiculous -.-

skywalker3

02-16-2008, 11:45

lolz :D:D:D:D:D

u believe in something that has a lot of flaws and a lot of doubts about certain facts...ridiculous ! grow up !
just READ the first post and try to answer 10% of those questions ,can you? no ,you can`t !
so many ignorants ... i wont argue with locked-heads ! gl :beer:

pRiMe

02-16-2008, 14:14

We should grow up cuz we believe in god and other saints ?
I really now agree with bergs post.

Union

02-16-2008, 15:58

We should grow up cuz we believe in god and other saints ?
I really now agree with bergs post.

You do not believe in God, you believe in what other people told you about god.
People created religion, not god. It's up to you to believe in their crap.

NuriAlcoTr

02-16-2008, 16:00

they believed in santa sometimes now they not religion will have its time.

pRiMe

02-16-2008, 16:37

You do not believe in God, you believe in what other people told you about god.
People created religion, not god. It's up to you to believe in their crap.

No people told me any crap...my parents teached me about religion and as i said that is faith in god and other things and if u think that is crap then u are just another crap on this earth no offence as u offended me on that way.

The.Traveller

02-16-2008, 17:42

No people told me any crap...my parents teached me about religion and as i said that is faith in god and other things and if u think that is crap then u are just another crap on this earth no offence as u offended me on that way.

If no people told you anything,then what are your parents? Are they not people too?

Union

02-16-2008, 17:57

No people told me any crap...my parents teached me about religion and as i said that is faith in god and other things and if u think that is crap then u are just another crap on this earth no offence as u offended me on that way.

Exactly, your stupid parents told you that. Not God.
You just proved my point.

pRiMe

02-16-2008, 18:44

@traveller i meant not any kind of people told me...
@Union you are kid that have no faith and nothing else to do just to be stupid around...i proved only that u are stupid.

Union

02-16-2008, 19:38

@traveller i meant not any kind of people told me...
@Union you are kid that have no faith and nothing else to do just to be stupid around...i proved only that u are stupid.

Imba English. Can you use it to describe what's it like being a moron?

skywalker3

02-16-2008, 19:38

No people told me any crap...my parents teached me about religion and as i said that is faith in god and other things and if u think that is crap then u are just another crap on this earth no offence as u offended me on that way.

Go to sleep man ...just go to sleep :P

agree with Union :D

CaRaMBa

02-17-2008, 00:54

Stupid thread.
There are two kinds of people
1.Who believe in God and
2.who don't believe in God.

The members of the first group are lucky. They can believe in God without searching proofs, a lot of people can't believe in God due to lack of proofs or due to Darwin, Theory of Big Bang or w/e. When they have some serious problems in their life, they can say that "God will help me, everyone will be OK" and they gain some very precious power not to give up.

The members of the second group can't believe in God, they try to be rational in these questions. When they have some serious problems, they can't say that "God will help me" because they don't believe in him. However, in serious situations, if they don't give up, they will want to search the solution, they won't wait for God to help them. This is an advantage.

So what my point is?
Sometimes it can be good to be a theist, sometimes better to be atheist. There is no need to flame to other group or to decide who is right. You can't prove an atheist that God exists, nor vica versa.
(btw personally I don't believe in God, I'm gonna be physicist :))

OMGBergrush

02-17-2008, 01:39

(btw personally I don't believe in God, I'm gonna be physicist :))

what does being a physicist have to do with your religious beliefs?

Bonzy

02-17-2008, 03:00

what does being a physicist have to do with your religious beliefs?

nothing...

V.V.V

02-17-2008, 03:16

Yea, yea, Numb and Timeless, I agree with all that, but seriously, get laid basement dweller.

We all know you're an atheist, why do you keep bragging about it?

I'm bragging about my skeptical side, since you religious people tend to choose the easy way out, which is "God did it".

what is proof? your retarded conclusion based on no knowledge at all? why dont you stop writing bull**** about religion because it will be best for everyone. others wont get offended by your absurd claims and you will save yourself the indignity of looking like an imbecile incapable of comprehending and reasoning

Oh please, Firstly, how ironic can you be to claim that we have no knowledge at all? I don't think he/she meant to insult you, and i think i don't mean to insult you, but for the love of the Flying Spaghetti monster are you even a bit curious? I mean believing in a Sky Daddy who created the world with his/her magical fingers and sprinkled a bit of love above our hearts and now everything is beautiful all the bad guys go to hell even though bad is a human perception and can change easily over time, and of course good people go to heaven, but if a person is good and doesn't believe in a god he/she still goes to hell just for not believing and all the good deeds he/she done on earth are not counted because of the simple fact of not believing in a Sky Daddy, not considering the lack of evidence or shall i better say that there is no evidence at all that a deity ever existed, and yet the Sky Daddy chooses to send this nice person to hell just because of his/her lack of belief. Megalomania cal god. Have fun with your Sky Daddy, pity you can't survive without his help for one day, Bu hu.

Religion is ridiculous ?It would be better if i say u are ridiculous.
Everyone except theists got their religion and faith in their god and that is nothing ridiculous -.-

Actually, if you pray and talk to a imaginative deity i would assume you are delusional right away. Talking and Praying to something which has no proof or empirical evidence whatsoever, its called being delusional.

No people told me any crap...my parents teached me about religion and as i said th