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IOwnYouAll

01-12-2008, 23:16

Well i saw that most scientific discoveries are making the religious world more and more against science.

Talk here about this subject.

(AJalex)

NumbAndTimeless

01-12-2008, 23:34

IOwnYouAll

01-12-2008, 23:37

And i thought i was the only one with that idea in the science part.

(AJalex)

edit by death:

Well, first of all I would like to point out that I'm an Atheist.

well,we(well the ppl who visits the forum frequently) know that allready ;)

Now that you have the actuall idea about me (The devil, basphemist idiot etc.) I'll proceed with my arguments.

nobody sayd that about you. or at least i didn't

In my own opinion, and many other atheists’ opinion, is that Religion is simply a hindering for our development as human beings. Religion represents just limits and more limits and more limits, it uses the power of Fear combined with a Gift at the end, of course only if you follow the values, norms and regulations set by that religion you will receive that gift.

I'm in mostly all aspects against religion, since religion just limits the human intelligence, gives them an illusion of how the world is, and disallows their curiosity to flow freely and many other limitations, not to mention the inequality between the two sexes.

well religion doesen't limit human inteligence as much as u may(not) belive. Religious ppl know that the flying spagetty monster from above gives us the freedom to chose our own path/belives...wheather is to serv him or not to. weather to chose evolution/religios " fairy tales "

about the sexes,well i could only think of 2 inequality's ...1) new borns(when they'r baptised..given a name) are alowed to enter the altar of the church,but ONLY boys(same thing is with some monestery in greece...only men alowed...and with vatican the same...)
and 2) only men are allowed to become priests(well at least in my religion belives).

The.Traveller

01-13-2008, 01:42

Well, first of all I would like to point out that I'm an Atheist.

Now that you have the actuall idea about me (The devil, basphemist idiot etc.) I'll proceed with my arguments.

In my own opinion, and many other atheists’ opinion, is that Religion is simply a hindering for our development as human beings. Religion represents just limits and more limits and more limits, it uses the power of Fear combined with a Gift at the end, of course only if you follow the values, norms and regulations set by that religion you will receive that gift.

I'm in mostly all aspects against religion, since religion just limits the human intelligence, gives them an illusion of how the world is, and disallows their curiosity to flow freely and many other limitations, not to mention the inequality between the two sexes.

"Good men do good things, evil men do evil things but for good men to do evil things that requires religion."

Furthermore, I will accept the fact that it’s a Faith base system, but why would you debate something which has No Factual details, Absolutely no Evidence of any deity anytime existing, No Empirical Evidence, no Logical reason, No Logic based arguments, Contradicting characteristics of deities (Omniscient, Omnipotent etc.) Improbability of existence of a deity etc.

Now let’s move on to Science.
These past decades have been the culmination of scientific theories, DNA has been discovered, Quantum Mechanics, Quantum Physics, Big Bang Theory, Evolution, Developed Technology, Scientific Discoveries, Improvements of Laws etc.
It's shocking for me that people still don't apply these things to religions, I mean by now religion should have vanished since we have much more detailed answers of several fundamental questions. Its ridicules seeing people still choose "god" instead of Big Bang, choosing Creationism instead of Evolution, it’s amazing to me to observe these actions taken by foolish religious people who think they have all the answers given to them in a silver plate.

Pity.

Veritas Vos Liberabit.

I consider Atheism to be the other part of the religion's coin.Therefore,i do not belong to neither of these two parts :)
I am not against religion,but if we talk about discoveries i am positive things we can see and hear and witness on our own can't be compared with words written in a book,i.e. the holy Bible.
It is unbelievable religion has survived so far,indeed.But i noticed it is a good way of keeping your mental state healthy;i consider the old religions,not the fanatic new sick ones called sects (if memory serves me well).
And it is easier for the most part of the population to let it all on the hands of some superior creature who takes care of everything.So they dnt have to bother with further explanations like,how this happens or what is this,how it works etc etc.
I,myself,believe in science for it is the only one that provides me with information taken from the real life! information about things i can see with my own eyes and why not touch and smell.
Religion gives us only words.Claiming all its done by Him or Him and dnt ask more questions cuz its a sin doesn't make sense.At least not for the advanced human brain,eager for more.
I think people mix up the role of science and the one of the religion in the society which,i think,are two completely different from each other roles :)

P.S: Thanks for reminding that latin saying,NumbandTimeless! The truth will set us free!

NumbAndTimeless

01-13-2008, 02:05

about the sexes,well i could only think of 2 inequality's ...1) new borns(when they'r baptised..given a name) are alowed to enter the altar of the church,but ONLY boys(same thing is with some monestery in greece...only men alowed...and with vatican the same...)
and 2) only men are allowed to become priests(well at least in my religion belives).

Well, yes there are different inequalities, since Religions are based mostly on Patriarchal views. Eh, Christians have it easy, you should go check how Women live in Saudi Arabia, or Iran.

I consider Atheism to be the other part of the religion's coin.Therefore,i do not belong to neither of these two parts

Well, I think you misinterpreted the term "atheism". Atheism basically refers to lack of belief in a supernatural/supreme being e.g. God, Thor, Zeus, Horus, Rah etc. it’s as simple as that.

I am not against religion,but if we talk about discoveries i am positive things we can see and hear and witness on our own can't be compared with words written in a book,i.e. the holy Bible.

The Bible is so ridicules, so incorrect, so disputable to look at it as a "true" book, it’s just plain foolish to believe in such a contradicting book such as the Bible or the Qur’an or the Torah etc. Furthermore all these "holly" books are so subjective and leave so much space for the reader to interpreted in a way which suits him/her, thus you can conclude that it’s not valid.

It is unbelievable religion has survived so far,indeed.But i noticed it is a good way of keeping your mental state healthy;i consider the old religions,not the fanatic new sick ones called sects (if memory serves me well).

Mental State Healthy? Until you know that the books which you are reading are plainly based on myths and fairy tale stories.

And it is easier for the most part of the population to let it all on the hands of some superior creature who takes care of everything.So they dnt have to bother with further explanations like,how this happens or what is this,how it works etc etc.

Which in my opinion in decreasing our value as human beings, I mean to be satisfied with the answer to the most intriguing question, the most fundamental one, "How did all begin" and other questions, with the answer "God did it", how is it possible for a human of this age, of this millennium, to be satisfied with such a ludicrous answer? I just doesn't seem a Logical step to me, to accept something without questions it, without studying about it.

I think people mix up the role of science and the one of the religion in the society which,i think,are two completely different from each other roles

Of course they have different roles, and I’m not disputing such a fact. But have you see what happened in Kansas? Have you heard of "Intelligent Design" ? How they tried to put Creationism in classrooms? Claiming it is a scientific theory and its based on facts? Do you see the line being tormented? Religion is acknowledging the danger Science presents to it, and tries to force foolish and unstable theories, which are logically flawed, and have absolutely no Empirical evidence.

Sincerely, the question which bothers me is why is religion still present till today? Why would someone accept an unstable, useless piece of answer and be proud to support it? Such a mystery for me.

P.S: Thanks for reminding that latin saying,NumbandTimeless! The truth will set us free!

No problem :), One of the best sayings which human beings ever created.

LyCaN.WarLorD

01-13-2008, 02:57

hmm scientists have found ancient gospel of Judas and in that text Judas didnt betray Jesus...and science denied many facts that were written in Bible..

NumbAndTimeless

01-13-2008, 03:05

hmm scientists have found ancient gospel of Judas and in that text Judas didnt betray Jesus...and science denied many facts that were written in Bible..
__________________

Facts in the Bible? Don't make me throw up please...
Science doesn't deny. Jesus never existed, or the probability that Jesus ever existed is quite low, since no historical documents have been found at the time Jesus were living, every historical document created about Jesus, was done 70-100 years after the so proclaimed crucifixion, by Roman historians which tells me they may have been bias etc.

LyCaN.WarLorD

01-13-2008, 03:14

Facts in the Bible? Don't make me throw up please...
Science doesn't deny. Jesus never existed, or the probability that Jesus ever existed is quite low, since no historical documents have been found at the time Jesus were living, every historical document created about Jesus, was done 70-100 years after the so proclaimed crucifixion, by Roman historians which tells me they may have been bias etc.

We dont know if Jesus really existed and if he was married with Magdalene and if they had children but the Pope ordered mass murder of templar knights cause they knew where is Magdalene`s thumb which the curch desperately wanted and they destroyed many massons and documents

NumbAndTimeless

01-13-2008, 03:21

We dont know if Jesus really existed and if he was married with Magdalene and if they had children but the Pope ordered mass murder of templar knights cause they knew where is Magdalene`s thumb which the curch desperately wanted and they destroyed many massons and documents

Sincerely, have you been educated correctly? Or you educated yourself while watching "The Da Vinci Code" and learning from there...
Before the church was quite powerful and did idiotic things which made no sense at all. Jesus never existed, until you provide me with historical documents, he has never been there.

Please stop with your conspiracy theories, and your beliefs which make a donkey which accidently looks like Paris Hilton smarter then you.

c0ckz

01-13-2008, 03:30

L o L, as far as i know the best theory about Jesus is that he actually existed; however there were many messiahs(i dont know if i spelled it right) besides Jesus(which had healing power and etc.) so he wasent any big smurf after all.

it's very hard to believe but i've experienced it long ago(well not me, still i couldnt deny my eyes)... there is something spiritual in this world.

LyCaN.WarLorD

01-13-2008, 03:31

Sincerely, have you been educated correctly? Or you educated yourself while watching "The Da Vinci Code" and learning from there...
Before the church was quite powerful and did idiotic things which made no sense at all. Jesus never existed, until you provide me with historical documents, he has never been there.

Please stop with your conspiracy theories, and your beliefs which make a donkey which accidently looks like Paris Hilton smarter then you.

Wtf are u talking about?These are not my beliefs and this aint from The D. Code ...I agree with ur theory except that I say that we dont know if Jesus was just an ordinary human beign

This is 2 much,Good night :)

NumbAndTimeless

01-13-2008, 03:33

we dont know if Jesus was just an ordinary human beign

Ordinary Human Being? What do you mean by that? As in he was an icon? Or He was a unique person, Or you mean what I assume you mean, That he was something supernatural, or he had some magic powers or something in that direction?

Please elaborate.

LyCaN.WarLorD

01-13-2008, 03:36

Ordinary Human Being? What do you mean by that? As in he was an icon? Or He was a unique person, Or you mean what I assume you mean, That he was something supernatural, or he had some magic powers or something in that direction?

Please elaborate.

I asume that he was just as ordinary human beign nothing more but not everyone thinks in this way

IOwnYouAll

01-13-2008, 09:34

Well i once saw on national geographic a documentary in which they said that Jesus was actualy a creation , with the powers of all Mesias just to create one supreme being.

what do you guys think about that

FD_Illizar

01-13-2008, 11:04

Ordinary Human Being? What do you mean by that? As in he was an icon? Or He was a unique person, Or you mean what I assume you mean, That he was something supernatural, or he had some magic powers or something in that direction?

Please elaborate.

U know! when i open my eyes wid open and think about it,i just say whatever! and thats it! just take a look around yourself! does it really matters if he existed or he didnt. the answer is NO,not for believers. i'm some sort of agnostic when it comes to science. but,the point is even if u give them the evidence,100% right,they still wont belive u. that's the truth. and its because the christians dont care about his existance, they care about what he said wheather it was his or other people's or God's.
now ask your-self. He is a legend.people love this story. a hero. Can u kill a such a famous and popular legend?
if u think logicly u can't,even if what you say is true.

I 100% admit your idea about science.mostly,they dont really match with each other.

The.Traveller

01-13-2008, 12:23

Well.no matter what happened,lets agree the fact that Jesus existed as a human being isn't something extraordinary,it may be possible.The fact that someone may have used him to gain power over the people and make a way to control them isn't something impossible to have happened.But the rest,him being the son of God,him having resurected from the dead and so on doesn't go hand in hand with logic.
The thing which makes my blood boil is that Church,indirectly through all these stories,denies human's ability to judge for himself and insults the only thing that make as humans,Reason!
There are several scientists who explore the zone where the sea (im not sure whether it has name in the Bible or not),supposedly,had split into two "waters" making way for Jesus and its followers to cross to the other side.They look for evidence which would prove this phenomenon had occured for real.
This is where the boundary between religion and science is tried at its best.People try to get rid of this boundary;not the best choice i say.I wonder how far it will go....
Btw about "The Da Vinci Code",this book contains information based on discoveries and facts that are not fully reported in the media.Great book,so its not it to be blamed :D

P.S:NumbandTimeless,i know what Atheism is :) It's the way i see it.A coin of the religion,one part with those who believe in it and the other part who is against it.I say this,because there are people like me,who consider themselves neutral :)

KeweLi

01-13-2008, 12:46

There is NO evidence that Christianity is false. And there is NO evidence about the evolution you see in shows and text book. There is a company in American that offers 1/4 million $US to anyone who gives evidence prooving it.

The world evolution alone has 6 categories. The only one we have seen is microevolution which ties into adaptation. And adaptation does not involve monkeys turning into humans.

The bible fits perfectly into things WE CAN ACTUALLY PROOVE. Etc. the first civilizations in the world were the Indus, Mesopotamia, Chinese, and Egyptian. Here we see solid proof of their existance, we see architecture, and EVEN A SEWER SYSTEM.
Now evolutionists say: "the world was formed billions and billions of years ago, caused by the big bang theory".
How bout we talk real science...matter cannot be destroyed or created (with one exception: a god).
The bible has made predictions that have come to reality, and there has been nothing disproving it. Guys, think, was your great, great, great...grandfather a bacteria, or a rock hit by melting acids?

IOwnYouAll

01-13-2008, 12:58

ProfileScorp

01-13-2008, 13:14

There is NO evidence that Christianity is false. And there is NO evidence about the evolution you see in shows and text book. There is a company in American that offers 1/4 million $US to anyone who gives evidence prooving it.

The world evolution alone has 6 categories. The only one we have seen is microevolution which ties into adaptation. And adaptation does not involve monkeys turning into humans.

The bible fits perfectly into things WE CAN ACTUALLY PROOVE. Etc. the first civilizations in the world were the Indus, Mesopotamia, Chinese, and Egyptian. Here we see solid proof of their existance, we see architecture, and EVEN A SEWER SYSTEM.
Now evolutionists say: "the world was formed billions and billions of years ago, caused by the big bang theory".
How bout we talk real science...matter cannot be destroyed or created (with one exception: a god).
The bible has made predictions that have come to reality, and there has been nothing disproving it. Guys, think, was your great, great, great...grandfather a bacteria, or a rock hit by melting acids?

:tiphat:

Kiel

01-13-2008, 13:33

I agree in like 95% with NumbAndTimeless - he really know what he is up to.

And about Jesus - the funny thing is that in Bible its like written about Jesus as a child, and then hes a grown up man whos around ~30 years old. So what about the missing part? And who knows if many of his miracles were just illusions? Who knows if he even existed. Its funny that even ancient population records dont show anything about his existence.

Even priest who taught me religion in prime school told me that he believes that most of miracles wich happend could have been logically explained. Like split of waters - its possible that strong winds were blowing at time of great cross through sea and thats the way people managed to make a miracle out of it. Actually most of things in old testimony (i dont really know the correct word for it) can be explained logically.

The bible fits perfectly into things WE CAN ACTUALLY PROOVE. Etc. the first civilizations in the world were the Indus, Mesopotamia, Chinese, and Egyptian. Here we see solid proof of their existance, we see architecture, and EVEN A SEWER SYSTEM.
Now evolutionists say: "the world was formed billions and billions of years ago, caused by the big bang theory".

Big bang is infact theory. So we cannot be 100% sure about it being. Still we got reasons to believe in it because we see planets moving away and other reasons (wich you can see in any book about the theory - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang i decided to provide this link because if i wouldnt you would still probably say that there is no reason to belive in big bang) while God - you got any proof that there was some unnatural being wich made earth and then nobody ever saw him?

How bout we talk real science...matter cannot be destroyed or created (with one exception: a god).

Define god please - and give me a proof that he exists if you dont mind, or maybe a proof that he created or destroyed anything other than some legends .

The bible has made predictions that have come to reality, and there has been nothing disproving it.

Whoah wich predictions? Wich of them came to reality? I never saw a legion of angels killing evil people did you? I never saw wine turning to blood - did you? While there's so many thing wich disproove "facts" mentioned in bible.

Guys, think, was your great, great, great...grandfather a bacteria, or a rock hit by melting acids?

My grandfather couldnt have been a rock because rocks arent alive (or maybe your theory about god says that rocks are our grandfathers?)
And bacteria - first you say in other thread that viruses mutate and why couldnt simple beings milliards years ago mutate and make more complicated organisms? Id rather believe in this than god who created world and said that humans should love each other but then he got vengefull and killed humans (Sodoma and Gomora maybe?) even tho he is supposed to be mercifull and forgiving.

Btw, read about how DNA chain is created - then you will know how it was possible for humans to evolve from bacteria to our current form.

The.Traveller

01-13-2008, 13:52

i think you need to get you're info source from somewhere else....the one who splited the water was MOSES not JESUS,who lived BEFORE Jesus

oh and about Him beeing human,it has been discused,and came to the conclusion that he had 2 ...er...how should i say it... identities... one human and one devine.

Oh i sincerely apologise for my mistake.I have used lately more the Jesus word than Moses.I hope i didn't offend any Jews,in case any of you are.

I wonder something,if the theory of evolution (and not only the theory) isn't good enough to be considered a proof,then lets take the explanation from the religious books.
According to teh Torah,later the Bible and the Qur'an,Adam and Eve were the first humans on Earth who had children who,by extension,populated the planet.
I dnt know how this is possible,considering they would be related to each other.And it's very well known royal families almost dissapeard because they were mating each other with cousins,brothers,sisters.Which caused their children to have fatal diseases.
It doesn't make sense...How could two people populate the world?

IOwnYouAll

01-13-2008, 13:56

And about Jesus - the funny thing is that in Bible its like written about Jesus as a child, and then hes a grown up man whos around ~30 years old. So what about the missing part? And who knows if many of his miracles were just illusions? Who knows if he even existed. Its funny that even ancient population records dont show anything about his existence.

well if you didn't knew,in those times you didn't have the right to express you're opinion(smth like that) till you were 30,similar to voting...(than goodness that it has changed to 18).

Even priest who taught me religion in prime school told me that he believes that most of miracles wich happend could have been logically explained. Like split of waters - its possible that strong winds were blowing at time of great cross through sea and thats the way people managed to make a miracle out of it. Actually most of things in old testimony (i dont really know the correct word for it) can be explained logically.

really? wich wind,what speed does it have to be to split up a SEA(i think it was the Red Sea..if i remember right),and let ppl cross,and after the " bad guys " come ,the winds dissapear?
or how can u turn wather into whine? kinda hard to explain huh?(this was Jesus's first miracle)
or for the love of the big flying spagetty monster above,how can u explain ppl who had several ilnesess(wich were/are incurable) just became healthy?
or reviveing the dead(i'm not talking about ppl who died,and after 2-3 min suddenly was living...). I'm talking of someone who has been dead for 4-5 days...One of His friends,by the name of Lazar was dead for 4-5 days,and he revived him(oh yea...forgot...he had ANK :P )

Big bang is infact theory. So we cannot be 100% sure about it being. Still we got reasons to believe in it because we see planets moving away and other reasons (wich you can see in any book about the theory - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang i decided to provide this link because if i wouldnt you would still probably say that there is no reason to belive in big bang) while God - you got any proof that there was some unnatural being wich made earth and then nobody ever saw him?

yep...big bang THEORY...wich u can't prove...
and btw wikipedia is not a scientificaly corect site...wiki is a site where ppl put info's there,ppl like you and me,from diferent sources,so the info is not 100% correct

Define god please - and give me a proof that he exists if you dont mind, or maybe a proof that he created or destroyed anything other than some legends .
the ULTIMATE beeing,or as Timeandsenslees like to say...Flying spagetty moster :P

Oh i sincerely apologise for my mistake.I have used lately more the Jesus word than Moses.I hope i didn't offend any Jews,in case any of you are.
forgiven :P

I dnt know how this is possible,considering they would be related to each other.And it's very well known royal families almost dissapeard because they were mating each other with cousins,brothers,sisters.Which caused their children to have fatal diseases.
It doesn't make sense...How could two people populate the world?

well..u got me here...i have been puzzled by this question also T_T

KeweLi

01-13-2008, 14:07

I agree in like 95% with NumbAndTimeless - he really know what he is up to.

And about Jesus - the funny thing is that in Bible its like written about Jesus as a child, and then hes a grown up man whos around ~30 years old. So what about the missing part? And who knows if many of his miracles were just illusions? Who knows if he even existed. Its funny that even ancient population records dont show anything about his existence.

Even priest who taught me religion in prime school told me that he believes that most of miracles wich happend could have been logically explained. Like split of waters - its possible that strong winds were blowing at time of great cross through sea and thats the way people managed to make a miracle out of it. Actually most of things in old testimony (i dont really know the correct word for it) can be explained logically.

Big bang is infact theory. So we cannot be 100% sure about it being. Still we got reasons to believe in it because we see planets moving away and other reasons (wich you can see in any book about the theory - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang i decided to provide this link because if i wouldnt you would still probably say that there is no reason to belive in big bang) while God - you got any proof that there was some unnatural being wich made earth and then nobody ever saw him?

Define god please - and give me a proof that he exists if you dont mind, or maybe a proof that he created or destroyed anything other than some legends .

Whoah wich predictions? Wich of them came to reality? I never saw a legion of angels killing evil people did you? I never saw wine turning to blood - did you? While there's so many thing wich disproove "facts" mentioned in bible.

My grandfather couldnt have been a rock because rocks arent alive (or maybe your theory about god says that rocks are our grandfathers?)
And bacteria - first you say in other thread that viruses mutate and why couldnt simple beings milliards years ago mutate and make more complicated organisms? Id rather believe in this than god who created world and said that humans should love each other but then he got vengefull and killed humans (Sodoma and Gomora maybe?) even tho he is supposed to be mercifull and forgiving.

Btw, read about how DNA chain is created - then you will know how it was possible for humans to evolve from bacteria to our current form.

You obviously are too young and unable to understand things. Just because there is a page about the big bang on wikipedia doesn't mean it's correct. How can you ask for proof about god, when you do not have proof about the big bang. If you do, go to America and claim your $25,000.

When you say your grand father couldn't be a rock, you are actually supporting the creationism side, your knowledge is far too low to be debating here.

Here is one of the many sites explaining what has been fulfilled by the bible: http://www.geocities.com/worldview_3/predictionstoday.html
God promised there to be war and diseases near the end of the world, I am not saying that the site is proof, but it is a list for you to consider.
And once again, you tell me to give you evidence of what came to reality, when YOU yourself say: "there's so many thing wich disproove "facts" mentioned in bible".

It is even foolish of me to reply you because you are a sad kid who has not even learnt about the world, and what it makes up.

NumbAndTimeless

01-13-2008, 14:24

There is NO evidence that Christianity is false. And there is NO evidence about the evolution you see in shows and text book. There is a company in American that offers 1/4 million $US to anyone who gives evidence prooving it.

There is no evidence Christianity is wrong? So, by that you are saying, it must be right, right? Hmm, alright let me follow your logical steps, there is no proof that a Cow which looks like Jennifer Lopez with the legs of Tom Tucker doesn’t exists, thus it must exist. Another one, there is no proof that the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn’t exist, thus IT MUST exist.

If Evolution wasn't proven, it firstly wouldn’t be taught in schools, you wouldn't see scientists still wasting their life’s on that particular area of science, you wouldn't see new discoveries made in favour of evolution. Nevertheless the fact that DNA was discovered proved that Evolution is right.

Go clean up your brain, this discussion is becoming pitiful.

The bible fits perfectly into things WE CAN ACTUALLY PROOVE. Etc. the first civilizations in the world were the Indus, Mesopotamia, Chinese, and Egyptian. Here we see solid proof of their existance, we see architecture, and EVEN A SEWER SYSTEM.

What does the Bible have to do with the ancient Civilizations? I see absolutely no connection.

The world evolution alone has 6 categories. The only one we have seen is microevolution which ties into adaptation. And adaptation does not involve monkeys turning into humans.

lol. Firstly yes, we can see Evolution happening in bacteria’s and viruses, but you have something wrong here, Microevolution results into Macroevolution, this is quite easy to understand, of course it will take millions of years, but its indisputable that it will results given the time it needs into Macro.

Now about the Monkeys and the Humans. From that phrase you said, i conclude that you have absolutely no knowledge on Evolution, you got your arguments from some idiotic, low-IQ website's which taught you evolution with 5 sentences and you were satisfied to know that your religion is right etc.

Please spare me with your ludicrous arguments, and your foolish attitude against the scientific world.

Now evolutionists say: "the world was formed billions and billions of years ago, caused by the big bang theory".
How bout we talk real science...matter cannot be destroyed or created (with one exception: a god).

Eh. The exact number is 13.7 Billion years ago. And yes scientist don't have all the answers, of course not, no one expects that from them. Many scientists support the Big Bang Theory because of observations and background radiations. One fact in favour of the Big Bang Theory is the Expanding Universe which is seen by looking at the red shift of stars. Another is the Background radiation present in the Universe which, if we were to track it back it would point out to the Big Bang Model on how the Universe "begin". Thirdly it would explain why we have so much Helium and Hydrogen present in the Universe etc.

The bible has made predictions that have come to reality, and there has been nothing disproving it. Guys, think, was your great, great, great...grandfather a bacteria, or a rock hit by melting acids?

Pity. What prediction did the Bible make? Furthermore how many did it make? And from those that were made how many were wrong? Anyone can get 1 Prediction right out of a 100 others.
How can you actually believe such a book? Let's see how flawless the Bible is and check some errors its contains:

2 Kings 8:26 says "Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign..."

2 Chronicles 22:2 says "Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign..."

If you cannot see the error, you got a problem with your eyesight.

2 Samuel 6:23 says "Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death"

2 Samuel 21:8 says "But the king took...the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul"

First no Childs, but then 5 Sons...

2 Samuel 8:3-4 says "David smote also Hadadezer...and took from him...seven hundred horsemen..."

1 Chronicles 18:3-4 says "David smote Hadarezer...and took from him...seven thousand horsemen..."

700 first, then 7000.

1 Kings 4:26 says "And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots..."

Chronicles 9:25 says "And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots..."

First 40.000, then 4000.

2 Kings 25:8 says "And in the fifth month, on the seventh day of the month...Nebuzaradan...came...unto Jerusalem"

Jeremiah 52:12 says "...in the fifth month, in the tenth day of the month...came Nebuzaradan...into Jerusalem"

5th Month on the 7th Day, second in the 5th month on the 10th day.

1 Samuel 31:4-6 says "...Saul took a sword and fell upon it. And when his armourbearer saw that Saul was dead and...died with him. So Saul died..."

2 Samuel 21:12 says "...the Philistines had slain Saul in Gilboa."

First Saul fell upon a Sword, second Philistines slained Saul.

Gen 2:17 says "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day thou eastest thereof thou shalt surely die [note: it doesn't say 'spiritual' death]

Gen 5:5 says "And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died."

See the error?

Matt 1:16 says, "And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus..."

Luke 3:23 says "And Jesus...the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli"

__________________________________________________ _______________

James 1:13 says "..for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man."

Gen 22:1 says "And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham..."

No Temptations, and then yes Temptation...

Gen 6:20 says "Of fowls after their kind and of cattle [etc.]...two of every sort shall come unto thee..."

Gen 7:2,3 says "Of every clean beast thou shall take to thee by sevens...Of fowls also of the air by sevens..."

2 first, then 7...

Luke23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."

John 19:30 "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."

He gave up the Ghost two times, can he do that ??

Gen 32:30 states "...for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."

John 1:18 states, "No man hath seen God at any time..."

Seen god, not seen god?

Now lets move on the Factual Errors:

1 Kings 7:23 "He made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about."

Circumference = Pi() x Diameter, which means the line would have to have been over 31 cubits. In order for this to be rounding, it would have had to overstate the amount to ensure that the line did "compass it round about.

Lev 11:20-21: "All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you."

Fowl do not go upon all four.

Lev 11:6: "And the hare, because he cheweth the cud..."

Hare do not chew the cud.

Deut 14:7: " "...as the camel, and the hare, and the coney: for they chew the cud, but divide not the hoof.

For the hare this is wrong on both counts: Hare don’t chew the cud and they do divide the "hoof.

Jonah 1:17 says, "...Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights"

Matt 12:40 says "...Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly..."

whales and fish are not related

Matt 13:31-32: " "the kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed which…is the least of all seeds, but when it is grown is the greatest among herbs and becometh a tree."

There are 2 significant errors here: first, there are many smaller seeds, like the orchid seed; and second, mustard plants don't grow into trees.

Matt 4:8: " Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them."

Unless the world is flat, altitude simply will not help you see all the kingdoms of the earth.

God promised there to be war and diseases near the end of the world, I am not saying that the site is proof, but it is a list for you to consider.

You made me laugh out loud so much; I had to go take a piss because of your sentence. Are you so idiotic to not see the irony in this? Of course everyone can predict the future there will be war, and disease and these obvious things. It’s human nature, it’s the greed the power we lung for, the jealousy we feel, the borders which divide us, of course there will be war, of course there will be disease, it’s absolutely amazing how you can see that as a prediction, it’s like me predicting that in Jamaica it will be sunny tomorrow. Shameful.
I think that is enough for now...
Have fun reading errors :S

IOwnYouAll

01-13-2008, 14:33

OMFG numb and others ..... try to write shorter posts so ppl can get in the discusion ....

(AJ)

Kiel

01-13-2008, 14:36

well if you didn't knew,in those times you didn't have the right to express you're opinion(smth like that) till you were 30,similar to voting...(than goodness that it has changed to 18).

Its not about oppinion - its about records of people alive - while there is no record about Jesus himself.

really? wich wind,what speed does it have to be to split up a SEA(i think it was the Red Sea..if i remember right),and let ppl cross,and after the " bad guys " come ,the winds dissapear?
At Red Sea you can see specific winds blowing wich are like maelstorms, when few of maelstorms go on each other it makes water split. And only miracle in it is that it happend just at the correct moment. Flying spaghetti monster isnt involved.

or how can u turn wather into whine? kinda hard to explain huh?(this was Jesus's first miracle)

You got no proof that it happend other than bible itself.

or for the love of the big flying spagetty monster above,how can u explain ppl who had several ilnesess(wich were/are incurable) just became healthy?

At ancient times medicine and hygiene were not evolved so much as they are now. Some diseases were easly cured just by simple dirt. Who knows maybe Jesus (if he existed) besides being ain illusionist had some medical knowledge too?

or reviveing the dead(i'm not talking about ppl who died,and after 2-3 min suddenly was living...). I'm talking of someone who has been dead for 4-5 days...One of His friends,by the name of Lazar was dead for 4-5 days,and he revived him(oh yea...forgot...he had ANK :P )

There is no proof that he actually was rewieved.

yep...big bang THEORY...wich u can't prove...
and btw wikipedia is not a scientificaly corect site...wiki is a site where ppl put info's there,ppl like you and me,from diferent sources,so the info is not 100% correct

Well info posted in wikipedia is from some sources right? Many of information mentioned there is in books. Thats why there is notes and references at bottom of the site so people like you will know where they took their info from.

Notes and references

1. ^ "Even though the Universe has been expanding and cooling ever since, the sound waves have left their imprint as temperature variations on the afterglow of the big bang fireball..." Chown, Marcus (30 October 2003). "Big Bang sounded like a deep hum". New Scientist.
2. ^ Slipher, V. M.. "The radial velocity of the Andromeda nebula". Lowell Observatory Bulletin 1: 56–57.
Slipher, V. M.. "Spectrographic observations of nebulae". Popular Astronomy 23: 21–24.
3. ^ a b Friedman, A (1922). "Über die Krümmung des Raumes". Z. Phys. 10: 377–386. (German) (English translation in: Friedman, A (1999). "On the Curvature of Space". General Relativity and Gravitation 31: 1991–2000. doi:10.1023/A:1026751225741.)
4. ^ a b Lemaître, G. (1927). "Un Univers homogène de masse constante et de rayon croissant rendant compte de la vitesse radiale des nébuleuses extragalactiques". Annals of the Scientific Society of Brussels 47A: 41. (French) Translated in: (1931) "Expansion of the universe, A homogeneous universe of constant mass and growing radius accounting for the radial velocity of extragalactic nebulae". Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society 91: 483–490.
5. ^ Lemaître, G. (1931). "The evolution of the universe: discussion". Nature 128: suppl.: 704.
6. ^ a b c Edwin Hubble (1929). "A relation between distance and radial velocity among extra-galactic nebulae". Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 15: 168–173.
7. ^ E. Christianson (1995). Edwin Hubble: Mariner of the Nebulae. Farrar Straus & Giroux. ISBN 0374146608.
8. ^ a b c P. J. E. Peebles and Bharat Ratra (2003). "The cosmological constant and dark energy". Reviews of Modern Physics 75: 559–606. doi:10.1103/RevModPhys.75.559. arXiv:astro-ph/0207347.
9. ^ E. A. Milne (1935). Relativity, Gravitation and World Structure. Oxford University Press.
10. ^ R. C. Tolman (1934). Relativity, Thermodynamics, and Cosmology. Oxford: Clarendon Press. LCCN 340-32023. Reissued (1987) New York: Dover ISBN 0-486-65383-8.
11. ^ Zwicky, F (1929). "On the Red Shift of Spectral Lines through Interstellar Space". Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 15: 773–779. Full articlePDF (672 KiB).
12. ^ Hoyle, Fred (1948). "A New Model for the Expanding universe". Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society 108: 372.
13. ^ R. A. Alpher, H. Bethe, G. Gamow (1948). "The Origin of Chemical Elements". Physical Review 73: 803.
14. ^ R. A. Alpher and R. Herman (1948). "Evolution of the Universe". Nature 162: 774.
15. ^ Simon Singh. Big Bang. Retrieved on 2007-05-28.
16. ^ It is popularly reported that Hoyle intended this to be pejorative. However, Hoyle denied that and said it was just a striking image meant to emphasize the difference between the two theories for radio listeners. See chapter 9 of The Alchemy of the Heavens by Ken Croswell, Anchor Books, 1995.
17. ^ a b A. A. Penzias and R. W. Wilson (1965). "A Measurement of Excess Antenna Temperature at 4080 Mc/s". Astrophysical Journal 142: 419.
18. ^ a b Boggess, N.W., et al. (COBE collaboration) (1992). "The COBE Mission: Its Design and Performance Two Years after the launch". Astrophysical Journal 397: 420, Preprint No. 92-02. doi:10.1086/171797.
19. ^ a b c D. N. Spergel et al. (WMAP collaboration) (2006). "Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe (WMAP) Three Year Results: Implications for Cosmology". Retrieved on 2007-05-27.
20. ^ S. W. Hawking and G. F. R. Ellis (1973). The large-scale structure of space-time. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. ISBN 0-521-20016-4.
21. ^ There is no consensus about how long the Big Bang phase lasted: for some writers this denotes only the initial singularity, for others the whole history of the universe. Usually at least the first few minutes, during which helium is synthesised, are said to occur "during the Big Bang".
22. ^ a b c Spergel, D. N.; et al. (2003). "First-Year Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe (WMAP) Observations: Determination of Cosmological Parameters". The Astrophysical Journal Supplement Series 148: 175—194. doi:10.1086/377226.
23. ^ Guth, Alan H. (1998). The Inflationary Universe: Quest for a New Theory of Cosmic Origins. Vintage. ISBN 978-0099959502.
24. ^ Schewe, Phil, and Ben Stein (2005). "An Ocean of Quarks". Physics News Update, American Institute of Physics 728 (#1). Retrieved on 2007-05-27.
25. ^ a b Kolb and Turner (1988), chapter 6
26. ^ Kolb and Turner (1988), chapter 7
27. ^ a b c Kolb and Turner (1988), chapter 4
28. ^ Peacock (1999), chapter 9
29. ^ Ivanchik, A. V.; A. Y. Potekhin and D. A. Varshalovich (1999). "The fine-structure constant: a new observational limit on its cosmological variation and some theoretical consequences". Astronomy and Astrophysics 343: 459.
30. ^ Detailed information of and references for tests of general relativity are given at Tests of general relativity.
31. ^ This ignores the dipole anisotropy at a level of 0.1% due to the peculiar velocity of the solar system through the radiation field.
32. ^ Goodman, J. (1995). "Geocentrism reexamined". Physical Review D 52: 1821. doi:10.1103/PhysRevD.52.1821.
33. ^ d'Inverno, Ray (1992). Introducing Einstein's Relativity. Oxford: Oxford University Press. ISBN 0-19-859686-3. Chapter 23
34. ^ a b Kolb and Turner (1988), chapter 3
35. ^ Gladders, Michael D.; Yee, H. K. C.; Majumdar, Subhabrata; Barrientos, L. Felipe; Hoekstra, Henk; Hall, Patrick B.; Infante, Leopoldo (January 2007). "Cosmological Constraints from the Red-Sequence Cluster Survey". The Astrophysical Journal 655 (1): 128-134.
36. ^ Peacock (1999), chapter 3
37. ^ Astronomers reported their measurement in a paper published in the December 2000 issue of Nature titled The microwave background temperature at the redshift of 2.33771 which can be read here. A press release from the European Southern Observatory explains the findings to the public.
38. ^ Steigman, Gary. "Primordial Nucleosynthesis: Successes And Challenges". arXiv:astro-ph/0511534.
39. ^ E. Bertschinger (2001). "Cosmological perturbation theory and structure formation". arXiv:astro-ph/0101009.
Edmund Bertschinger (1998). "Simulations of structure formation in the universe". Annual Review of Astronomy and Astrophysics 36: 599–654.
40. ^ If inflation is true, baryogenesis must have occurred, but not vice versa.
41. ^ a b c Kolb and Turner (1988), chapter 8
42. ^ Strictly, dark energy in the form of a cosmological constant drives the universe towards a flat state; but our universe remained close to flat for several billion years, before the dark energy density became significant.
43. ^ R. H. ****e and P. J. E. Peebles. "The big bang cosmology — enigmas and nostrums". S. W. Hawking and W. Israel (eds) General Relativity: an Einstein centenary survey: 504–517, Cambridge University Press.
44. ^ A. D., Sakharov (1967). "Violation of CP invariance, C asymmetry and baryon asymmetry of the universe". Pisma Zh. Eksp. Teor. Fiz. 5: 32. (Russian) Translated in JETP Lett. 5, 24 (1967).
45. ^ Navabi, A. A.; N. Riazi (2003). "Is the Age Problem Resolved?". Journal of Astrophysics and Astronomy 24: 3.
46. ^ Keel, Bill. Galaxies and the Universe lecture notes - Dark Matter. University of Alabama Astronomy. Retrieved on 2007-05-28.
47. ^ Yao, W. M.; et al. (2006). "Review of Particle Physics". J. Phys. G: Nucl. Part. Phys. 33: 1–1232. doi:10.1088/0954-3899/33/1/001. Chapter 22: Dark matterPDF (152 KiB).
48. ^ (2003) "Phantom Energy and Cosmic Doomsday". Phys. Rev. Lett. 91: 071301. arXiv:astro-ph/0302506.
49. ^ Hawking, Stephen; and Ellis, G. F. R. (1973). The Large Scale Structure of Space-Time. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. ISBN 0-521-09906-4.
50. ^ J. Hartle and S. W. Hawking (1983). "Wave function of the universe". Phys. Rev. D 28: 2960.
51. ^ Langlois, David (2002). "Brane cosmology: an introduction". arXiv:hep-th/0209261.
52. ^ Linde, Andre (2002). "Inflationary Theory versus Ekpyrotic/Cyclic Scenario". arXiv:hep-th/0205259.
53. ^ "Recycled Universe: Theory Could Solve Cosmic Mystery", Space.com, 8 May 2006. Retrieved on 2007-07-03.
54. ^ What Happened Before the Big Bang?. Retrieved on 2007-07-03.
55. ^ A. Linde (1986). "Eternal chaotic inflation". Mod. Phys. Lett. A1.
A. Linde (1986). "Eternally existing self-reproducing chaotic inflationary universe". Phys. Lett. B175.
56. ^ Kragh, Helge (1996). Cosmology and Controversy. Princeton University Press. ISBN 069100546X.

Books

* Kolb, Edward; Michael Turner (1988). The Early Universe. Addison-Wesley. ISBN 0-201-11604-9.
* Peacock, John (1999). Cosmological Physics. Cambridge University Press. ISBN 0521422701.

Further reading

For an annotated list of textbooks and monographs, see physical cosmology.

* Barrow, John D. (1994). The Origin of the Universe: To the Edge of Space and Time. Phoenix, 150.
* Alpher, R. A.; R. Herman (August 1988). Reflections on early work on 'big bang' cosmology. Physics Today, 24–34.
* Mather, John C.; John Boslough (1996). The very first light: the true inside story of the scientific journey back to the dawn of the universe, 300. ISBN 0-465-01575-1.
* Singh, Simon (2004). Big Bang: The most important scientific discovery of all time and why you need to know about it. Fourth Estate.
* Davies, Paul (1992). The Mind of God. Simon & Schuster UK. ISBN 0-671-71069-9.
* Cosmic Journey: A History of Scientific Cosmology. American Institute of Physics.
* Feuerbacher, Björn; Ryan Scranton (2006). Evidence for the Big Bang.
* Misconceptions about the Big Bang. Scientific American (March 2005).
* The First Few Microseconds. Scientific American (May 2006).

the ULTIMATE beeing,or as Timeandsenslees like to say...Flying spagetty moster :P

Man i get called a child when other people call their deity spaghetti monster.

You obviously are too young and unable to understand things.

It looks like i understand more than you. So in fact looks like im more adult, and im not blinded by christianity.

Just because there is a page about the big bang on wikipedia doesn't mean it's correct. How can you ask for proof about god, when you do not have proof about the big bang. If you do, go to America and claim your $25,000.

Read my previous post. You are just throwing smoke bomb at me because you cant explain god phenomen. Now as i have stated my sources its time for you to proove gods existence.

When you say your grand father couldn't be a rock, you are actually supporting the creationism side, your knowledge is far too low to be debating here.

Dude, you call my knowlede low? You say im stupid because i know that humans are not rocks? Or that rocks are alive? Man i want some of the thing you are smoking!

Here is one of the many sites explaining what has been fulfilled by the bible: http://www.geocities.com/worldview_3...ionstoday.html
God promised there to be war and diseases near the end of the world, I am not saying that the site is proof, but it is a list for you to consider.
And once again, you tell me to give you evidence of what came to reality, when YOU yourself say: "there's so many thing wich disproove "facts" mentioned in bible".

Its obvious that wars will happen. Its like i will make prophecy that sun will shine tomorrow. You expect me to bring evidences, and i do. I expect you to do the same, but you dont. So at least give me some of the crack you smoke because its just amazing :D :D

It is even foolish of me to reply you because you are a sad kid who has not even learnt about the world, and what it makes up.

Go hug a rock - maybe its your grandfather oh mr 'not sad kid'
Btw, great post Numb.

FD_Illizar

01-13-2008, 14:59

Pity. What prediction did the Bible make? Furthermore how many did it make? And from those that were made how many were wrong? Anyone can get 1 Prediction right out of a 100 others.
How can you actually believe such a book? Let's see how flawless the Bible is and check some errors its contains:

2 Kings ...

Of course everyone can predict the future there will be war, and disease and these obvious things. It’s human nature, it’s the greed the power we lung for, the jealousy we feel, the borders which divide us, of course there will be war, of course there will be disease, it’s absolutely amazing how you can see that as a prediction, it’s like me predicting that in Jamaica it will be sunny tomorrow. Shameful.
I think that is enough for now...
Have fun reading errors :S

I donno much about bible but i know about Quran and everything it said is true + the scientific parts (Quran has lots of words which talks about science)
if u prove them wrong i 'd become an AGNOSTIC.

NumbAndTimeless

01-13-2008, 15:06

I donno much about bible but i know about Quran and everything it said is true + the scientific parts (Quran has lots of words which talks about science)
if u prove them wrong i 'd become an AGNOSTIC.

Please do show the Quran's predictions or the scientific things it said, I have no knowledge upon that.

The.Traveller

01-13-2008, 15:10

There is NO evidence that Christianity is false. And there is NO evidence about the evolution you see in shows and text book. There is a company in American that offers 1/4 million $US to anyone who gives evidence prooving it.

The world evolution alone has 6 categories. The only one we have seen is microevolution which ties into adaptation. And adaptation does not involve monkeys turning into humans.

The bible fits perfectly into things WE CAN ACTUALLY PROOVE. Etc. the first civilizations in the world were the Indus, Mesopotamia, Chinese, and Egyptian. Here we see solid proof of their existance, we see architecture, and EVEN A SEWER SYSTEM.
Now evolutionists say: "the world was formed billions and billions of years ago, caused by the big bang theory".
How bout we talk real science...matter cannot be destroyed or created (with one exception: a god).
The bible has made predictions that have come to reality, and there has been nothing disproving it. Guys, think, was your great, great, great...grandfather a bacteria, or a rock hit by melting acids?

Keweli,have you ever heard about CERN? It is the european organisation for central research.They already managed to produce matter out of nothing,following the theory of Big Bang.They already produced antimatter and use it for different purposes.
So,it seems Big Bang-together with the whole science world-gain more and more territory against religion theories....

IOwnYouAll

01-13-2008, 15:20

At Red Sea you can see specific winds blowing wich are like maelstorms, when few of maelstorms go on each other it makes water split. And only miracle in it is that it happend just at the correct moment. Flying spaghetti monster isnt involved.
if it happend once,it should happend again...did it?

You got no proof that it happend other than bible itself.
so do you have proof of the big bang other than THEORIES ?

At ancient times medicine and hygiene were not evolved so much as they are now. Some diseases were easly cured just by simple dirt. Who knows maybe Jesus (if he existed) besides being ain illusionist had some medical knowledge too?

do you actualy read all i say? i sayd INCURABLE ilnesses,such as paralysis

There is no proof that he actually was rewieved.
is there any proof that humans evoluated from monkeys?
Well info posted in wikipedia is from some sources right? Many of information mentioned there is in books. Thats why there is notes and references at bottom of the site so people like you will know where they took their info from. not all sources are given links...some info's are just written what ppl heard from theyr...mother/father/friends

Read my previous post. You are just throwing smoke bomb at me because you cant explain god phenomen.
not only him...we asked u non belivers some question involvin God,and u just sayd " haha rofl you're question is so stupid ,to stupid to be answered "(if you don't know what i'm talking about,it was when i asked NUMB to tell me why holy ppl's body don't rot...and he just laughed..)

Go hug a rock - maybe its your grandfather oh mr 'not sad kid' imature childish answer...
if u prove them wrong i 'd become an AGNOSTIC. can someone tell me what an agnostic means? really now...not trying to be sarcastic or smth :)

KeweLi

01-13-2008, 15:30

If Evolution wasn't proven, it firstly wouldn’t be taught in schools
So...If God wasn't proven, it firstly wouldn’t be taught in religious schools

What does the Bible have to do with the ancient Civilizations? I see absolutely no connection.
The first ancient civilizations appeared from around the 4000BC-2000BC. This is also the time God created the Earth. We see tools from these civilizations, but we cannot find anything before it.

lol. Firstly yes, we can see Evolution happening in bacteria’s and viruses, but you have something wrong here, Microevolution results into Macroevolution, this is quite easy to understand, of course it will take millions of years, but its indisputable that it will results given the time it needs into Macro.
Like you said...millions of years in which no one has seen. Science = observe/experiment. Evolution is a religion, not science, the name of this thread is incorrect.

Now about the Monkeys and the Humans. From that phrase you said, i conclude that you have absolutely no knowledge on Evolution, you got your arguments from some idiotic, low-IQ website's which taught you evolution with 5 sentences and you were satisfied to know that your religion is right etc.
Please spare me with your ludicrous arguments, and your foolish attitude against the scientific world.
Again, evolution is not science but a religion. The lord describes people like you as scoffers.

NumbAndTimeless

01-13-2008, 15:36

so do you have proof of the big bang other than THEORIES ?

Hmm, Theories... It’s called Scientific Theories, and they are quite hard to establish. And yes we have proofs for the Big Bang Theory other then only assumptions. And I told you in my previous post, Background Radiation, Red Shift of Stars pointing out the Expanding of the Universe, Elements in the Universe, Matter/Energy, Dark Matter, Dark Energy etc.

Just to tell you what are the so called "JUST THEORIES": Its Theory that the Earth orbits the Sun.

do you actualy read all i say? i sayd INCURABLE ilnesses,such as paralysis

Give me proof of such occasions ever happening. I want detailed Historical Documents.

is there any proof that humans evoluated from monkeys?

Your knowledge about Evolution is pitiful, Humans didn't evolve from Apes or as you call them monkeys, we evolved from the Same Ancestor as Apes. We are 98% Similar to them. Furthermore Apes and Humans have the same ancient genetic virus called ERV which is still present till this day on Apes and Humans. Not to mention the fossil records which clearly shows the evolutionary phases, is that not enough? Another one? Our vertebra contains 3 fused bones called the Coccyx which are on the end of the vertebra; those bones are the remainder of our ancient tail.

not only him...we asked u non belivers some question involvin God,and u just sayd " haha rofl you're question is so stupid ,to stupid to be answered "(if you don't know what i'm talking about,it was when i asked NUMB to tell me why holy ppl's body don't rot...and he just laughed..)

And I will still say your question is absolutely ridicules. "Holy" people's body of course rots, every person will get decayed, every living creature will get decayed.

can someone tell me what an agnostic means? really now...not trying to be sarcastic or smth

Agnostic: Refers to someone who claims that they do not know or are unable to know whether God exists.

So...If God wasn't proven, it firstly wouldn’t be taught in religious schools

No not really, because Religious schools aren't based on Facts, they are based on Belief, which if you didn't know is completely different from a Fact.

The first ancient civilizations appeared from around the 4000BC-2000BC. This is also the time God created the Earth. We see tools from these civilizations, but we cannot find anything before it.

Are you kidding me? Are you serious? Alright let me start with the lecture on archaeology, cosmology, biology, physics and all the rest of science which it seems you missed out.

Firstly, Mesopotamia is dated back to 7000BC. We have fossil records which prove that, Archaeologists have found hundred of buildings build by Ancient Sumerians, which again reinforce the dating back to 7000BC...
Of course we can find things before Mesopotamia, we find different fossils, we find different Tools, we find Caves which were inhabited before, ridicules claim from you, I'll assume that you believe our Earth is 6000 years old? Yes? Sincerely i feel Ashamed of being a Human being at this moment...

Like you said...millions of years in which no one has seen. Science = observe/experiment. Evolution is a religion, not science, the name of this thread is incorrect.

Heh, so, if you didn't see something it clearly is wrong? Your Logic is [Silence], I put silence there because I don't want to waste my words. Evolution is a Religion? [Silence], Not Science? [Silence].

I hope you anytime today convince yourself to actually pick up a science book and get up-to-date... And this is not a joke, I mean it with the fullest seriousness.

Again, evolution is not science but a religion. The lord describes people like you as scoffers.

Ehh, and we Atheists have such a simple words you describe your kind, Ignorant.

IOwnYouAll

01-13-2008, 15:50

Give me proof of such occasions ever happening. I want detailed Historical Documents. do you have historical documents / at least primitive drawings where humans evoluate from Same Ancestor as Apes
Your knowledge about Evolution is pitiful
my knowledge about evolution isn't that vast,but i know basic stuff,and can compare to religios " fairy tales " ,and i chose the fairy tales
And I will still say your question is absolutely ridicules. "Holy" people's body of course rots, every person will get decayed, every living creature will get decayed.
you should go to monestaries,and see what i'm talking about...thats the PROOF you wanted...
Agnostic: Refers to someone who claims that they do not know or are unable to know whether God exists. thx ;)

NumbAndTimeless

01-13-2008, 15:59

do you have historical documents / at least primitive drawings where humans evoluate from Same Ancestor as Apes

Didn't you read my whole post? I pointed out enough proofs which point out that Apes and Humans are almost identical in DNA Structure, the ERV Virus, Fossils etc.

my knowledge about evolution isn't that vast,but i know basic stuff,and can compare to religios " fairy tales " ,and i chose the fairy tales

Of course I cannot make you change your mind, which I won't even be trying to do, but knowing only Basic stuff shows that your curiosity isn’t that high, if you are satisfied with the answer "God did it all" then I sincerely feel sorry for you.

you should go to monestaries,and see what i'm talking about...thats the PROOF you wanted...

Firstly, putting a body into the ground like normal people do it is different to keeping a body well clean, caring for its well being etc. Of course it will take vast amount of time to actually see any decaying effect on the body of a person who has been kept clean, and has been taken care of. Take for example Egyptian Pharaohs, they were kept almost in perfect conditions because they were taken care of, carefully handled, thus they're decaying was much slower. So it’s nothing to do with their "holiness" its how they are taken care of after they die.

thx

No problem.

Kiel

01-13-2008, 16:02

if it happend once,it should happend again...did it?

Yep in 1908 and it is not considered a miracle.

so do you have proof of the big bang other than THEORIES ?

Read my post again - you seem to be having problem with reading while this question was answered few times already and im not going to repeat myself.

do you actualy read all i say? i sayd INCURABLE ilnesses,such as paralysis

Left this one to NumbAndTimeless

is there any proof that humans evoluated from monkeys?

Does name Darwin ring a bell? I guess it doesnt!

not all sources are given links...some info's are just written what ppl heard from theyr...mother/father/friends

Not all - but most. While in bible all of them are based on what people heard from each other.

not only him...we asked u non belivers some question involvin God,and u just sayd " haha rofl you're question is so stupid ,to stupid to be answered "(if you don't know what i'm talking about,it was when i asked NUMB to tell me why holy ppl's body don't rot...and he just laughed..)

Answered already by Numb.

imature childish answer...

You expect something else as an answer to immature childish question?

The first ancient civilizations appeared from around the 4000BC-2000BC. This is also the time God created the Earth. We see tools from these civilizations, but we cannot find anything before it.

Hahahahha what a piece of bull****in**** ... earth created 4000 years ago. Hahahah holy ****in spaghetti monster hahahahha this guy called me a kid. Ahahahahhahahahahh whoah it made me seriously laugh. You dont see anything from before 4000BC? Whoah you must be really ill hahahahhahahahh.

Ok i stopped laughing for a moment...

do you have historical documents / at least primitive drawings where humans evoluate from Same Ancestor as Apes

Those people are unreformable ...

my knowledge about evolution isn't that vast,but i know basic stuff,and can compare to religios " fairy tales " ,and i chose the fairy tales

My dear friend, you dont even know the MOST BASIC stuff. I hope you still are in primary school, because if you are not then your country education system is seriously lacking something.

you should go to monestaries,and see what i'm talking about...thats the PROOF you wanted...

Monks bodies dont rot? Hahah you must be smoking same crack as keweli.

Anyway this thread gave me a good laugh you people really need to stop smoking or give me some so i can join the fray with you.

SetoKaiba

01-13-2008, 16:07

so do you have proof of the big bang other than THEORIES ?no. but still in time there will be and i will rather accept that than other explanation that flying spagety monster created all which is even more retarded.

is there any proof that humans evoluated from monkeys?
there is TONS of proofs that humans evolved form monkeys which in fact kills other theory that god created Adam/Eve.

What is best way to become atheist ? Read the Bible.

Bible is just full of STORIES - not proofs or anything -
Its interesting how some of these stories are so stupid that church simply says - well its just a story thus its in bible so people could learn message out of it - while in others which are btw equal lame/stupid it just taken as a fact.

Just take a look at what random beliver thinks. -

God created everything ... than he created earth ... than he created humans.

Science cannot explain at this time how everything started but in time - maybe in next 1000 years or so - they will.

We know how planets are created so we can dismiss that god created earth.

And we know about evolution which gives strong fact and proofs and everything that we know humans were not created by god.

They will just say - evolution is bull**** - without even trying to explain or bring ANY ****ing fact that it is.

Kiel

01-13-2008, 16:14

The best and the most stupid quotes from this thread are as follows:
(Made them in one single post so people who dont have enough time to browse through whole thread can get the best here)

There is NO evidence that Christianity is false

And there is NO evidence about the evolution you see in shows and text book

The bible fits perfectly into things WE CAN ACTUALLY PROOVE.

How bout we talk real science...matter cannot be destroyed or created (with one exception: a god)

The bible has made predictions that have come to reality, and there has been nothing disproving it.

Guys, think, was your great, great, great...grandfather a bacteria, or a rock hit by melting acids?

This one really made me laugh

yep...big bang THEORY...wich u can't prove...

You obviously are too young and unable to understand things. [...] When you say your grand father couldn't be a rock

I just had to comment that.

How can you ask for proof about god

I mean – how can you ask for proof about something that doesnt exist?

When you say your grand father couldn't be a rock [...] your knowledge is far too low to be debating here.

IMBA!

When you say your grand father couldn't be a rock [...]
It is even foolish of me to reply you because you are a sad kid who has not even learnt about the world

If im sad because my grandfather wasnt a rock, then i take it as a compliment.

not all sources are given links...some info's are just written what ppl heard from theyr...mother/father/friends

He just said what bible is all about

imature childish answer...

Kids who didnt finish primary school seem to like call each other child.

The first ancient civilizations appeared from around the 4000BC-2000BC. This is also the time God created the Earth

One of the best quotes too

Evolution is a religion

Another good one from Keweli! Woot for him

but i know basic stuff

http://www.farfromneutral.com/exodus/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/o_rly.jpg

Thanks to Keweli and Ajalex for great fun they gave me and my friends - we are all really glad that people like you still exist.

IOwnYouAll

01-13-2008, 16:39

Of course I cannot make you change your mind

finaly somebody got it ;)

Firstly, putting a body into the ground like normal people do it is different to keeping a body well clean, caring for its well being
well yea,pharoes mumies are taken care of,but normal ppl that don't rot,are just throun into the ground. A person is considered holy only after he dies

Yep in 1908 and it is not considered a miracle. never heard of it..
Does name Darwin ring a bell? I guess it doesnt!
yea...theories...

Not all - but most. While in bible all of them are based on what people heard from each other. yea...the bible was written ...about 70 years after the crucificiction...do you expect a link to that date or smth?

Monks bodies dont rot? Hahah you must be smoking same crack as keweli. 1) i don't smoke.
2) if i was keweli,i would take it as an insult to a admin/mod and ban you.
3) i didn't insult you/numb/anybody else,so i would apreciate if you wouldn't talk like that
4) continuing 3...ever heard of mannners?
Anyway this thread gave me a good laugh you people really need to stop smoking or give me some so i can join the fray with you.

insult again..and pls don't say smth like " sorry you can't take a joke " or smth like that,cause it's not that funny..
Another good one from Keweli! Woot for him dude...it's not a religion...but similar...but i wouldn't expect someone like you to have a bit of imagination

NumbAndTimeless

01-13-2008, 16:53

well yea,pharoes mumies are taken care of,but normal ppl that don't rot,are just throun into the ground. A person is considered holy only after he dies

You don't understand the concept of "Decay".

Decay: To break down into smaller parts. When plants or animals die, their bodies decay. The nutrients that made up their bodies then go back into the soil and are re-used. Decomposers are organisms that help decay.

We are Animals, thus we decay. Nothing stays' like when it was alive, it’s simply impossible.

yea...theories...

Well, as I said, it’s a Theory that the Earth orbits the Sun. It’s also a Theory, furthermore Gravity is only a theory, but it’s completely proven, thus sometimes we use the words The Law of Gravity, but it’s still widely known a Theory of Gravity.

dude...it's not a religion...but similar...but i wouldn't expect someone like you to have a bit of imagination

Please enlighten us with your imagination and elaborate on why religion is similar to evolution.

XFIRE

01-13-2008, 16:57

I agree only with Charles Darwin.

p.s. : poll added.

IOwnYouAll

01-13-2008, 17:12

Please enlighten us with your imagination and elaborate on why religion is similar to evolution.

well it's similar(in my opinion) because:

-well scientists belive in evolution,whereas monks belive in a spagetty monster
-science has it's representatives : Einstein,Darwin,etc. and the Churce has Moses,Jesus etc.
-both have theire own version of how the universe was created

keweli sayd that evolution is a religion....i dissagre...it's not a religion...but it's similar to it.
and atheism is a religion to(kinda)...they belive in NOT beliving in the flying spagetty monster ;)

NumbAndTimeless

01-13-2008, 17:20

-well scientists belive in evolution,whereas monks belive in a spagetty monster

Let me Correct you, Scientists don’t believe in Evolution, they have factual details, they have observational methods to prove Evolution, they have DNA, they have Fossils. I don't think Scientists need Faith in this area.
Whereas People who believe in a deity need absolutely faith to believe in such a thing as a deity since, there is no proof, no logical base, no empirical evidence etc.

-science has it's representatives : Einstein,Darwin,etc. and the Churce has Moses,Jesus etc.

Ehh. Einstein, Darwin, Newton etc. Actually did something, they have actually achieved something; they helped us understand the Universe and our World with facts and empirical evidence, with Scientific theories etc. In Contrast with Moses, Jesus etc. since the only thing they "did" is tell stories, which are yet to be proven to be true, they only are mentioned in the Bible which has many errors and is subjective.

-both have theire own version of how the universe was created

It’s not their version, Scientists actually decide upon what facts they have, they will decide logically and accept scrutiny. Whereas Religious people don't accept any scrutiny, don't accept anything which goes against their views.

Science accepts when it does something wrong, Religion doesn’t.

Kiel

01-13-2008, 17:39

never heard of it..

Im not asking if you heard about it. I provided you with information wich can be confirmed. Its your problem if you dont know nothing about it - its in your best interest to look for a book or website you consider being trustworthy to find info about it.

yea...theories...

Another argument explained above - its not even argument from you. Instead of admitting that you are wrong you still repeat yourself.

yea...the bible was written ...about 70 years after the crucificiction...do you expect a link to that date or smth?

I would like some confirmed source to to proove that information in it is correct just like i provided you info about big bang.

1) i don't smoke.

Then stop acting way people who smoke do.

2) if i was keweli,i would take it as an insult to a admin/mod and ban you.

He insulted me by calling me a sad kid, and by trying to impose that im not allowed to share my oppinion, also by deleting my posts. So he should be banned and jailed for breaking human rights. Hah. Plus you if thats insult, the above statement of yours is infact a threat to me - so you should be jailed for it. And if not you should be banned (like you got few times already - i still dont know why are you here)

3) i didn't insult you/numb/anybody else,so i would apreciate if you wouldn't talk like that

You are insulting my intelligence

4) continuing 3...ever heard of mannners?

Yep, it looks like word "manner" got different meaning for both of us.

insult again..and pls don't say smth like " sorry you can't take a joke " or smth like that,cause it's not that funny..

I adressed this already. It wasnt joke, open your mind and admit that you are wrong instead of going further into this mud.

dude...it's not a religion...but similar...but i wouldn't expect someone like you to have a bit of imagination

He said it is religion. So dont try to tell me its different. Anyway science is nowhere close to religion.
Btw there were a lot of arguments you people didnt adress - no suitable theory from you? Or maybe you start to doubt your beliefs?

ProfileScorp

01-13-2008, 17:41

IOwnYouAll

01-13-2008, 18:02

He said it is religion
yes he did...that's his opinion...mine is that it's SIMILAR and just that.
and 1 more thing... how come we are the only planet on our solar system that can support life?
because Earth is the only planet in this solar sistam that has conditions to sustain life

NumbAndTimeless

01-13-2008, 18:05

some questions for dumbandtimless and other ignorants who say God doesnt exist (i personaly am atheist too, but i can't possibly sustain with good arguments that an ultimate force doesnt exist; and ok... i totaly agree with u guys about the stupid religion that is based on no real facts... but still, religion was 'invented' by people so they could controll others and express a point of view)

Waow, and atheist which protects "god" even though there is no such thing. Now people are starting to make new sects inside Atheism... Just Waow.

why did organisms had to evolve into homo sapiens sapiens (final evo state)? why didnt it stop to those organisms that live in cave's water that survive 100 years and can exist without any food? or why didnt those apes ancestors had to evolve to a so weak creature like HUMAN? why didnt it just get smarter?

Evolution just doesn’t stop when it’s at its best... Environments changes, climate changes, Natural Phenomena's appear, species are forced to adapt to new environments etc.

They didn’t survive 100 years, the life expectancy back then was lower than 30 Years or lower than that.

Now let’s examine your view on "Weak" and "Strong". Our Environment establishes who is the stronger and who is the weaker. Thus at this moment we live in an developed World, we are social animals and the strongest here is the most intelligent, thus you can be as strong as you want physically but you won't achieve something memorable as someone who is more intelligent. Which basically means the Intellectual one survives.

What you mean why it didn’t just become smarter? I assume why it didn't keep its strength and just develop its intelligence? Simple. Because with intelligence and with developed technology you don't have to use your force to do things, thus we have machines to build our buildings we don't have to get 1000 slaves to do such a things, which makes us physically more weak, but it makes us more intellectual.

Just to remind you again, Evolution doesn't just stop... With Nature setting the tone, we just follow it.

''matter cannot be destroyed or created (with one exception: a god).''
i guess u didnt understand what keweli tried to say...
u said big bang created universe... but what was before big bang... the answer: another universe created by another big bang
before that? same... but what was before them all? how did 'anything' appeared so it can create an electron, a radiation, an explsion, energy, movement?
and 1 more thing... how come we are the only planet on our solar system that can support life? why did all oxigen, hidrogen etc. came all in 1 stupid planet? shall i assume there was some chemical attraction between oxigen and oxigen that made it stick together? how come this perfect order that exists in the universe established (or whatever) evan in bilions of bilions of years?

Scientists assume that Matter and Energy always existed, in a some kind of "Vacuum" which kept it. But of course we don't know for sure. We know happened during the Big Bang, but we don't know precisely how it happened on was there any cause to what happened. And we actually admit that we don't know, BUT there is absolutely no reason to believe there was something, just because we don't know, doesn’t mean we attribute it to some deity which makes us feel better since we now have a foolish answer with contains only 3 words.

If you can say "god" is infinite, the same can be said for the Universe.

Why are we the only planet that supports life? Well that’s not true, Mars had huge rivers flowing on its surface, of course scientists still didn’t find any trace of any kind of organism which might have lived there, but still the fact that Mars had Water on its surface its quite fascinating, furthermore Europa the moon of Jupiter has huge amount of water under its surface which again gives us a chance to find living organism or any kind of trace of any kind of organism which might have lived there.

What you mean by all oxygen and Hydrogen came to this planet? Do you have any idea on how much Hydrogen the Universe contains? What about Oxygen?

What kind of perfect order are you talking about in the Universe? Are you Insane that your observation skills let you down?

At this moment, our nearest neighbour Galaxy is being crushed by a Black Hole, how is that Perfect Order? Our Universe is Chaos, Black Holes, Super Nova’s, Jet's, Comets, Meteorites’, Hydrogen is getting used up by Stars, Whole Galaxies being wiped out by Black Holes immense gravity etc.

Please, you a mere theist or maybe a bit agnostic, if you don't know the answers to these kind of questions, I assume you’re just another theist who has absolutely no knowledge on Evolution or the Cosmos.

Kiel

01-13-2008, 18:32

yes he did...that's his opinion...mine is that it's SIMILAR and just that.

because Earth is the only planet in this solar sistam that has conditions to sustain life

Yours and Kewelis oppinion is far away from truth unfortunatley.

Anyway you didnt adress any of my points so you should really yield instead of going further with this. Or you can try to threaten me again, even tho it wont give you anything because im above empty threats.

Anyway that was to be expected.

obey.my.dreamz

01-13-2008, 18:45

u forgot to put "neither " in poll.. so i wont vote this1.

XFIRE

01-13-2008, 18:47

u forgot to put "neither " in poll.. so i wont vote this1.

You can vote now, lol.

What do you believe in, then?

SetoKaiba

01-13-2008, 18:57

flying spagetty monster ofc.

obey.my.dreamz

01-13-2008, 19:08

You can vote now, lol.

cool.

i just don't believe that neither god nor monkeys created us.

what i believe is not important now,. or mb it's better for u not to know x))
so for now leave it this way...

LyCaN.WarLorD

01-13-2008, 19:49

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Dx5GEV-tyw&feature=related rofl listen to this stupid guy...

NumbAndTimeless

01-13-2008, 20:05

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Dx5G...eature=related rofl listen to this stupid guy...

Its a Parody on Christians, How can you believe that he ment it?
The Person is being Sarcastic and Ironic.

KeweLi

01-14-2008, 05:05

Are you kidding me? Are you serious? Alright let me start with the lecture on archaeology, cosmology, biology, physics and all the rest of science which it seems you missed out.

Firstly, Mesopotamia is dated back to 7000BC. We have fossil records which prove that, Archaeologists have found hundred of buildings build by Ancient Sumerians, which again reinforce the dating back to 7000BC...
Of course we can find things before Mesopotamia, we find different fossils, we find different Tools, we find Caves which were inhabited before, ridicules claim from you, I'll assume that you believe our Earth is 6000 years old? Yes? Sincerely i feel Ashamed of being a Human being at this moment...

Now you are talking total rubbish and trying to pretend you know archeology and all that. There is NO evidence proofing it was from the 7000BC time.

we find different fossils, we find different Tools, we find Caves which were inhabited before
We can only be sure tools started from the 4000BC which we actually do have references of. So I guess you are thinking of museums which have a normal rock on display claiming it is a million years old. You are saying about fossils and caves based on your own small knowledge from tele.

And yes I believe the world is around 8000 years old because god created it in around 6000BC which makes perfect sense. It is sad people actually believe this world which was originally beautiful was created from a big bang out of nothing. Watch this video I uploaded some time ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGwchcv1U1c, maybe then you will get the message.

Kiel

01-14-2008, 15:21

Now you are talking total rubbish and trying to pretend you know archeology and all that. There is NO evidence proofing it was from the 7000BC time.

We can only be sure tools started from the 4000BC which we actually do have references of. So I guess you are thinking of museums which have a normal rock on display claiming it is a million years old. You are saying about fossils and caves based on your own small knowledge from tele.

And yes I believe the world is around 8000 years old because god created it in around 6000BC which makes perfect sense. It is sad people actually believe this world which was originally beautiful was created from a big bang out of nothing. Watch this video I uploaded some time ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGwchcv1U1c, maybe then you will get the message.

You forgot to use your time machine to travel from medieval times back to 21 century i suppose. I wonder about two things:

1.Why does this guy who said that earth is 4k years old and that his grandfather was a rock thinks he got bigger knowledge than someone else? My 3 years old nephew is more knowledgeable than him.

You are saying about fossils and caves based on your own small knowledge from tele.

Unlike you some people read books and educate themselves.

And yes I believe the world is around 8000 years old because god created it in around 6000BC which makes perfect sense. It is sad people actually believe this world which was originally beautiful was created from a big bang out of nothing.

2.How can such person be a moderator on public forums? Its not about beliefs but about facts - if someone would say such bull**** in school he wouldnt be able to finish primary school then why is he a moderator here? As far as i know you need primary education to be able to work as hole digger ... Its not insult - its truth wich freaks me out because there are in africa without acess to internet who know more about this world than this guy.

Also there are evidences that life existed before 8000BC go to school then you will know why and how.

KeweLi

01-14-2008, 17:41

1.Why does this guy who said that earth is 4k years old and that his grandfather was a rock thinks he got bigger knowledge than someone else?
You proof yourself to be a sensitive kid who replies after reading a few lines. I said the earth is around 8000 years old and based on EVOLUTION: acid falling on rocks is what started life. So unlike you, I believe there is a greater designer and one who has plans for everyone one of us.

2.How can such person be a moderator on public forums? Its not about beliefs but about facts - if someone would say such bull**** in school he wouldnt be able to finish primary school then why is he a moderator here? As far as i know you need primary education to be able to work as hole digger ... Its not insult - its truth wich freaks me out because there are in africa without acess to internet who know more about this world than this guy.

Also there are evidences that life existed before 8000BC go to school then you will know why and how.
Go on...tell us what evidence you have that proofs the world to be billions-millions of years old. Evolution itself is a belief, 55 posts and there has not been one proof, but only claims. This will be the last post I ever reply to you because it is sick of me to argue with children.

Scientists assume that Matter and Energy always existed, in a some kind of "Vacuum" which kept it. But of course we don't know for sure. We know happened during the Big Bang, but we don't know precisely how it happened on was there any cause to what happened. And we actually admit that we don't know, BUT there is absolutely no reason to believe there was something, just because we don't know, doesn’t mean we attribute it to some deity which makes us feel better since we now have a foolish answer with contains only 3 words.
You admit it yourself, how can you question Creationism when you cannot provide answers to questions about the big bang?
And based on the evolution theories...the meaning to life is to be live, and get decomposed. The complexity of this world guarantees a designer and not just a big bang.

Kiel

01-14-2008, 18:11

You proof yourself to be a sensitive kid
If a kid who thinks his grandfather was a rock calls me a kid next time i will take it as a compliment.

who replies after reading a few lines.

Its not my fault that you dont bother with writing any more ...

I said the earth is around 8000 years old and based on EVOLUTION

Nope, you said that earth was created 8k years ago (strange that you first said it was 4k years old but whatever) and that it was created by god - are you trying to adapt now? Its too late for it anyway.

: acid falling on rocks is what started life. So unlike you, I believe there is a greater designer and one who has plans for everyone one of us.

Sad kid - you just prooved that you didnt took adequate education in school. Go get yourself some Hydrochloric acid and throw it on rock - see if there is some life magically coming out of it hahaha.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_life - its good article about origin of life - dont tell me that wikipedia isnt reliable source - because if its not read one of 43 notes and references at the bottom of page.

acid falling on rocks is what started life

you mix up yourself - first you say that god created world, then that falling acid made it, next time you say its evolution. Pretty bad for you.

Go on...tell us what evidence you have that proofs the world to be billions-millions of years old.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth - here you go. If you dont find it as a reliable source then feel free to look at one of 180 notes at the bottom of the page. Got your proof? If you still dont see any proof then buy glasses because you may be having problems with sight.

Evolution itself is a belief,

It was belief 400 years ago when Darwin first shown his works. Its a fact now.

55 posts and there has not been one proof, but only claims.

You really seem to be missing a point. You showed no proofs other than claims. We showed you way too many proofs.

This will be the last post I ever reply to you because it is sick of me to argue with children.

If the fact that my grandfather wasnt a rock (heh i just love this part) then i take word "child" as a compliment now on. I prefer being a child than being you.
I didnt expect any more points from you because you dont have any reasonable way to proove your statements.

You admit it yourself, how can you question Creationism when you cannot provide answers to questions about the big bang?

Admit it yourself - you have trouble with reading dont you? I gave link to Big Bang few posts ago, its your problem that you have problems with clicking links and reading. I have actually provided good answer. You didnt answered any of questions unfortunatley.

And based on the evolution theories

Its not theory - its fact.
...the meaning to life is to be live, and get decomposed.

Not really, you are supposed to procreate so your kind will be alive. Thats the whole point of life (thats why some animals die after having sex or giving birth to children)

The complexity of this world guarantees a designer and not just a big bang.
Got any proofs about his guarantess or his existence?

You make my day by posting. You dont adress any of my points. You dont give any proofs for your theories. You dont have anything wich may have some sense to say. Still you post here. And thats why i like it. Anyway still i wonder how did you got moderator status here while you are talking such bull****s.

c0ckz

01-14-2008, 18:16

i can answer the last question xD

Kiel

01-14-2008, 18:18

Then feel free to do so :D

NumbAndTimeless

01-14-2008, 18:31

Now you are talking total rubbish and trying to pretend you know archeology and all that. There is NO evidence proofing it was from the 7000BC time.

Well, I actually know quite a bit of Archaeology, but it seems you don't like to accept facts. Of course there is evidence that it was Older then 7000BC. We have Carbon Dating to prove such a thing, we can calculate the past environment which that civilization have lived, we know the exact temperature at that time, we know how they lived, how they acted etc.

Where do you think we have the Sexigimal Numerical Systems? Where do you think we have the 24 Hours = 1 Day? 1 Hour = 60 Minutes? Where?
Where do you think we have the 200 Set of Laws from the Sumerian King?

Spare me with your reverse insults.

We can only be sure tools started from the 4000BC which we actually do have references of. So I guess you are thinking of museums which have a normal rock on display claiming it is a million years old. You are saying about fossils and caves based on your own small knowledge from tele.

What are you talking about? Are you completely uneducated? Of course we can be sure of tools which are older than 4000BC. Carbon Dating. We can also compare rocks found with rocks in different time scales, and come to conclusions, we can study the tool by looking how it got carved, what method the person used to carve it, of course we cannot be 100%, but Hey nothing is 100%.

Now about Museums, Eh... Claiming? Mate, people actually are sceptic of these things, they want proofs, empirical evidence, graphs etc. And they give it to them, and they are satisfied. Now if you aren't satisfied, and instead you are satisfied with this answer "God did it all" then by all means, you are a complete hypocrite.

And yes I believe the world is around 8000 years old because god created it in around 6000BC which makes perfect sense.

I don't understand how that makes sense... How does that make sense? How does this suite all needs of science? How does it comply with Astronomical evidence? Fossil records? DNA research? Different extinct animals?

I would recommend you to go answer to my thread with the many questions.

Sincerely it’s just humiliating to see people like you not making use of the technology and science today. It’s just Ridicules to me.

Age of the Earth:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-age-of-earth.html

Fossil :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil

Carbon Dating:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_Dating

Red Shift (Calculating how old the Universe Is):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Shift

Big Bang Theory:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang

Evolution:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution
http://www.agiweb.org/news/evolution.pdf

Intelligent Design Vs Evolution: Kansas:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/id/program.html#ch01

I would recommend you read them all.

Smurf

01-14-2008, 18:59

Seriously now,this thread is becoming more then interesting,let's not spoil it with personal quarels.
Some of you guys aproove science to testify how life appeared,who/what created Earth,etc.
Some other guys still believe in God and they're strongly testifying ourselves and anything near by is of a celestrial 'hand'.
Science group can get alot of 'testified theories',scientific explainings and so on,mostly from wikipedia,which i rarely used and i'm not qualified to talk about them.
Religious group can bring personal arguments and quotes from the Bible,since it's all based on belief,as previously explained in another post.
You choose wether to believe or not,although you're baptised in 1 religion without your will,which is pretty unfair.
Anyway,what does supporter status has to do with someone's beliefs ???
He got that job in the crew mostly for his ability to deal with some situations and for prooving himself to be worthy of such appreciation.
I know,these seem big words,but they're not.
Seriously,are we supposed to be saints ? To just shut the hell up and listen to our holy normal user just cause we're in the crew ? Or just cause that would mess up our/our colleagues image ?
Are we not supposed to have our own opinions and to express them freely ?
Lately,i saw some users got the idea of suppressing one member of the crew just cause he has that status.
You should just think of the time he spent on this forum,moderating it properly.
Only 1 thing separates us from normal users : care .Care about our gaming community,even if that's on forum or on server.
Mind your words on your next posts,please.
Let's cut the fights,they're leading us nowhere.
I hope noone got this post wrong.
Cheers ~

c0ckz

01-14-2008, 19:20

burn the witch burn the witch!!

personal quarrels? keweli should have given up much sooner, thus he only manage to humiliate himself, it served us all some amusement so lets spare him.

si intra pe bnet in pizda matii :|

Smurf

01-14-2008, 20:45

Reading,and presenting links from a site,then pretending you knew what was written there does not humiliate someone.
Let's stop the discussion about this now.

NumbAndTimeless

01-14-2008, 20:49

Reading,and presenting links from a site,then pretending you knew what was written there does not humiliate someone.
Let's stop the discussion about this now.

Are you referring to me?

Kiel

01-14-2008, 21:07

You choose wether to believe or not,although you're baptised in 1 religion without your will,which is pretty unfair.
Agreed.

Anyway,what does supporter status has to do with someone's beliefs ???

As i said before its not about beliefs - he was saying modern heresy about life being created from acid and rocks and he was impairing major facts about our life wich were prooven by a lot of people hundred times more intelligent than this kid.

He got that job in the crew mostly for his ability to deal with some situations and for prooving himself to be worthy of such appreciation.

You mean that if someone talks blasphemy about life, earth and seem to have no knowledge about very foundamental things wich are taught in very first class of school got ability to judge others, act mature, and be righteous? In first posts of this (or maybe was it another) topic he deleted my post wich contradicted his oppinion (and this post was brought back, after i have recopied it [haha firefox tabs work miracles sometimes] and pasted it back) this was the way moderator should act? Moderator should have consciousness to judge how to act in a situation and people should be mature to do this work.

Seriously,are we supposed to be saints ?

No, but people who got moderator status should at least have some common sense.

To just shut the hell up and listen to our holy normal user just cause we're in the crew ?

Hmm you have noticed that i didnt said a single word against you or other moderators right? Its just about keweli and the way he acts. At the moment i have nothing bad to say about rest so why do you take this as personal cruciate of mine against whole server crew?

Or just cause that would mess up our/our colleagues image ?

I dont really get this point.

Are we not supposed to have our own opinions and to express them freely ?

Yes you can. But moderator should be an example to other people because your status obliges you to do something. You cannot be moderator and expect that nobody will ever expect anything from you.

Lately,i saw some users got the idea of suppressing one member of the crew just cause he has that status.

I were not bothering to read english part of forum for a long time so tell this to users you saw "suppressing" one member of the crew just cause he has that status.

You should just think of the time he spent on this forum,moderating it properly.

Ok, so if anyone will be nolifing at forum he will get moderator status? Its not that hard work really especially that he got like 20 other crew members supporting him (i remember when in old times there were like 5 people moderating and there were no problems, so how come that now he got so much trouble with 20 other people?). Latley there have been a lot of people getting moderator status and some of them dont even have 3 months spent on forums. I dont say this is bad, im just saying that some of them like keweli are not really suited to do such responsible tasks.

Only 1 thing separates us from normal users : care .Care about our gaming community,even if that's on forum or on server.

Hmm so normal users dont care about community? And you forgot that before you got mod you were normal user right? So you didnt care and then suddenly when you got modded you started to care? Its pretty much contradicting yourself.

Mind your words on your next posts,please.

Ok i understand this is a threat to me?
Why dont you tell this to guy who called me sad/nolife/immature kid who doesnt know that rock is my ancestor.

Let's cut the fights,they're leading us nowhere.

Indeed i tried to be as polite as possible. Anyway no matter what i would say nobody would ever be convinced by me - its the reason why internet is so cool in the first place. Anyway the last sentence of yours was supposed to mean something like that "Ok thats my word - and its the last word nobody is able to express their oppinion now". Im really sorry but i had to give my contrarguments, maybe its not the right place but there isnt any better.

Let's stop the discussion about this now.

As above, if you want to stop discussion you shouldnt have posted before.

Reading,and presenting links from a site,then pretending you knew what was written there does not humiliate someone.

I suppose this was directed at me too. Anyway imporant aspect of life is finding and using information correctly. With internet you have very good acess to information.

You cant get information out of nowhere. Thats why we write books, so other people can use them. Its your fault if you dont. I got right to use information and after reading something, understanding it i can freely say that i know this.

Also he humiliated himself by presenting his arguments. (He ROCKS directly - or maybe his ancestor does).

Smurf

01-15-2008, 13:42

Agreed.

As i said before its not about beliefs - he was saying modern heresy about life being created from acid and rocks and he was impairing major facts about our life wich were prooven by a lot of people.
Alot of people that share your theory,but that doesn't necessarily means it's true just because you believe in it.
You see,information has 2 points and few ways of looking at it.You decide if you believe it ...and,if you do,it's true for you,if you don't believe it,then it's not.
Sounds pretty logical,just wanted to point it out.

You mean that if someone talks blasphemy about life, earth
I think you missunderstood the word ' blasphemy' .It only relates to the religion,not life,not earth.

and seem to have no knowledge about very foundamental things wich are taught in very first class of school got ability to judge others, act mature, and be righteous?
Once again,it's all about relativeness,the view you're looking at.
I think he's very well-mannered and anything he may done,he did it from different reasons.
You don't know everything,i can assure you.
In first posts of this (or maybe was it another) topic he deleted my post wich contradicted his oppinion
You can't see who deleted your post.
Maybe it was somebody else who did it and that particular person might of did it to avoid situations like this ?

this was the way moderator should act? Moderator should have consciousness to judge how to act in a situation and people should be mature to do this work.
And another thing ...if you were mod and you deleted some posts from reasons you don't need/want to explain to public,wouldn't normal users say the same thing about you ?
Works both ways,the only difference is the person writting/talking and his/her point of view.

No, but people who got moderator status should at least have some common sense.
Let's not question his common sense.
I think he got it.
You're being subjective.

Hmm you have noticed that i didnt said a single word against you or other moderators right? Its just about keweli and the way he acts. At the moment i have nothing bad to say about rest so why do you take this as personal cruciate of mine against whole server crew?
I'm not taking this as a cruciade,since this is not the case.
Keweli is also moderator,and i thought i should clear some things out,just to point some facts,but,picking from my words and quoting only some things won't make you understand,trust me.

I dont really get this point.
Nevermind.

Yes you can. But moderator should be an example to other people because your status obliges you to do something. You cannot be moderator and expect that nobody will ever expect anything from you.
He has his personal beliefs,he explained them,and he did it mannered.
What's not to like ?
And we're not moderators because we have to give an example to others.
Ofc,such things are counted when selecting a moderator,but mostly,we're chosen by some different things,and being mature and responsible does help.
I know such things from my case,can't share it though.

I were not bothering to read english part of forum for a long time so tell this to users you saw "suppressing" one member of the crew just cause he ha