ne v ud

[Zyd3k]

jak pokonac ud ktory ma mass garg + ghul + dl + dk
mialem wiecej hipo niz on garg + archerki ale te 2 szybko mi padly przez ghule , ja stracilem wszystkie hipo a on ze 2-3 bo mial aure wampiryzmu na 3 lvl + coil i qwa jak takie cos pokonac ??
znacie jakies strategie na takie cos ?

[gosu][ud]

na gargi sie nie robi hipo - lepiej driady/archerki

Archerki padly bo nie mialy wsparcia, np pare misi lub gigantow przed i bys mial wieksze szanse. Do tego kotek z aura celnosci i jedziesz;)

Oczywiscie, wiekszosc zalezy od samego sterowania ta armia, zawsze warto miec zwoje leczenia i ochrony. Chronic hero, kotek zawsze stoi z tylu - bez hero armia nigdy nie ma szans.

[War][][][Master]

jak dlamnie na ud to starczy....mass hunt & archer z 3-4 baraków z expem :Pi jeden hero... najlepiej warden :P.....

[Magda]

hmmm war master ma racje a jak ci dl usypia wardenke to wybieraj 1 luczniczke i atakuj swojego hero wtedy sie budzi ^_^

[iLLuSiON]

hehe dobre pomysłowa dziewczynka :)

[Terrorboy]

sorry ze zapytam illusion, ale tych chcesz zrobic 90% wygranych na xpamie i nie znasz takich "sztuczek"? :p

[Deimos-Spain]

This forum is too stopped....

[Deimos-Spain]

and i have too many problems to defeat ud with ne... some ideas? ----it is possible to win ud with ne in tired 3?

[Species_8472]

:( i have the same problem but sometimes i win at tier 2 with a balanced army of 3-4 hunts 6-7 archers and 3-4 talons but very hard and thats vs noobs. tier beastmaster 5-6 archers with ff if the ud rushes with ghouls make him somehow focus on the beastmaster and ff on ghouls 1 by 1. for fiends go to tier 2 to talons and ff on the dk (if he uses cl detonate wisps on beetles)
but dont focus too much cuz hes very hard to kill.2nd hero should be panda)if its a map whitout tavern use warden).tier 3 if ud forgets destros or isnt very good go for cyclone but if ud is good
chimaeras with hippos can do some dmg) prepare healing and invul for nuke. 1 more thing wagonmancers r hard to beat with ne. but u must throw everything u have at them, always bring 4-5 wisps in battle and just run from them until necros waste their mana.
;) never let them come to your base
sorry if i wrote too much:D

[Species_8472]

and deimos 2nd mars´ moon is called Fobos;) :cool: :D

[Deimos-Spain]

thank you, we will try!

[Sky][RunneR-]

with 12 dryads they can kill your 300000000 gargs....t_T

NE imba anyway! and dont wanna talk about maps with tavern....pfffff the warden and the panda ownz the gargs!!!

[g0d]allseer]

i don't know about this but...
it's hard the other way around...

[becks[07]]

1st u can own any undead easy in tavern map,go warden 1st and panda sec or even firelord works :P,makes some hunts in begining they can stop gouls easy in begining especially with warden,then support with archers and dryadys

and sky runner if u think drayds owns gargs u r wrong gargs win with better micro the only problem is the *** banda and the lisbian warden :D

[sakky]

Originally posted by becks[07]
1st u can own any undead easy in tavern map,go warden 1st and panda sec or even firelord works :P,makes some hunts in begining they can stop gouls easy in begining especially with warden,then support with archers and dryadys

and sky runner if u think drayds owns gargs u r wrong gargs win with better micro the only problem is the *** banda and the lisbian warden :D

true. only thing what makes some players to go dryards is cause they are cheap and do effective job against opponent microing (slow poison) especially for gold u pay building them. dryards against masssed gargs is a bad choice, because gargs own them. gargoyles in general are really imbalanced units for 2 food (yet hpys own them but they arent good because they hit only air) and thats why gargs cost so much for 2 food unit, if u try to compare money u spend on massing dryards and money on massing gargs, u ll see it isnt even so bad of massing dryards against UD gargs. managing with resources is also important because elf goes in upkeep with dryards faster and they pay that, while UD massing gargs is effective for easy control, making opponent hard to control for not seeing units sometimes, + they focus easy cause of being air unit, having damage for 2 food better than orc grunts have (go and check unit stats:)). i tell u, only thing why ppl mass dryards against gargs is for their excellent effectiveness for gold they cost. but if u ocnsider armies like in thse FoV's replays, then u can see what is problem of dryards.....
ppl could have seen few replays of FoV owning massed dryards by massed gargs. yes, also advantage to dryards is that UD cant use nova on them. and yeah, warden > them. but massed gargs in LARGE number make it even easier to beat elf, there is a crittical mass where dryards are simply NOT good against UD, like really vast number. dont forget, FoV beated that guy on tour both games on same trick. and opponent wasnt noob, he came pretty far to be classified as noob.


about the rest of the story... turtle rock is like map designed a bit for elf. plunder is found as UD map for garging those dragons, ogres..... few other things (and plunder is base defence for orcish horde to take wins in tours:mad: ) UD vs NE is matchup which depends a LOT on map choice.

[brain-o-man]

yeah ,i agree there ,and when u come 2 that mass dryad he can easy switch 2 mass fiends who realy >>>dryad....

[Sky][RunneR-]

Originally posted by becks[07]
1st u can own any undead easy in tavern map,go warden 1st and panda sec or even firelord works :P,makes some hunts in begining they can stop gouls easy in begining especially with warden,then support with archers and dryadys

and sky runner if u think drayds owns gargs u r wrong gargs win with better micro the only problem is the *** banda and the lisbian warden :D


eHeH...pffffffffff you need over 20 gargs to kill 7-8 drayds ..... so dont tell me that archers and drayds dont own the gargs easy!

and firelord is not good vs. UD when u play NE cuz he can be killed easy from mass ghouls!

[becks[07]]

lol

[Sky][RunneR-]

i realy dont care about that ....
anyway yeah i agree to play with gargs vs. NE (what else escept gargs and ghouls) but also we all know that NE are Imbalanced for UD!

[FiRezzzz]

iam sure as hell that this thread is too old,but ill have to say iam a NE player and i dont really seem to be having any problems in beating undead with warden ( fan of knives + blink ),hunts,few archers and draydes...the more difficult is beating a good orc player for me :S,simply he goes for raiders,grunts and demolashers and iam ruined,mostly with FS and TC,sometimes FS and SH which is even worse.

[RockYz*4]

Lately i do DR (solo or with panda) and it works WONDERFUL

[Who_Am_I]

Dunno guys if you think gargs+ghouls is not your style and you can't win vs it why don't you try BMi.PhilBot strat? It's too long to explain but find some of his replays vs NE on www.wcreplays.com and u'll see what am i talking about. He even won Spirit_Moon with it even after he lost his level 3 DK to creeps :D

[Arie-]

u mean using fiends? lol i saw one of his reps using fiends vs an elf player. He was like having an amazing record that time with mass wins and one lose and he lost to that elf.. pff dont ever anyone try to use fiends vs elf (use it for web only of course :)). It will only be a big lol.
I, for instance, dont make gargs. I make ghouls/abos/dests/tri hero. Lots of elf players will just try to make some chippo, but ill have some fiends by that time and nuke the hell outta those chims. Also its very imba that an elf player can get an exp fast and undetected. Alright i know ull say that ud needs it too, but look at us - we need to play strinkingly fast and undetected, we need to overwhelm everyone by the inner-power of our army, which often consist of the heroes (there are even times when you just try to nuke his main hero just to save your ass by praying he'll TP). Compare exps: u need a tree while ud needs a mine, a necropolis and zigurats to defend it. Look at the acos.. bleh.. u know it. All these weaknesses make a lot of difference between the races which eventually adds up and cause us real pain. Therefore, more variable strats and combos are acceptable for ne, while we have to stick to the same thing to just counter you. This, by every means, applys to every race which is playing against the Undead.

[Who_Am_I]

Well actualy fiends are good vs elf, at least i'm having ****load of problems vs them :D And from like 10 philbot replays i saw only once NE win but he had fairly big resource advantage. Btw do you think NE can hold on to UD with equal resources? I don't think so.

[Arie-]

ever tried to micro a fragile melee army? Ne has the advantage on the tav maps whereas ud has on the non-tav ones. So on the 75% of the maps Ne wins. Its like when Ne is searching for a game he is all shakin - begging for a tav map :D. Like human: Oh please GOD, let it be LT pleeeeeeaaasseeee :D

[sakky]

hehe fragile army:D i know UD is having **** of ghouls unless u upgrade them to frenzy.

ehhe yes "plz let it be lost tempple:D:D:D" and then comes "**** u creeps, dont give that damn lightning shield at least, give him potion :mad: "

btw, u know where elf takes advantage? turtle certainly. gnol wood too.

UD = plunder.
ORC = small maps certainly.

---------------------------------------------
and btw, someone should really make a poll about which animation is the best in game. i vote for bolting heroes:D especially *** seer:cool:

[FiRezzzz]

although LT seems to be a human map,and it is accually but i really find it very good for NE too,but human defintly has the advantage on this map.

[RockYz*4]

Originally posted by Who_Am_I
Dunno guys if you think gargs+ghouls is not your style and you can't win vs it why don't you try BMi.PhilBot strat? It's too long to explain but find some of his replays vs NE on www.wcreplays.com and u'll see what am i talking about. He even won Spirit_Moon with it even after he lost his level 3 DK to creeps :D

it was actualy freedom

[Who_Am_I]

Originally posted by RockYz*4
it was actualy freedom

Yeah my mistake i figured it out but i was too lazy to edit the damn post ^^

EDIT:

btw no way he could win moon, moon is too good for everybody. Even the mighty bad manner arogant deadman said he admires moon style.

[RockYz*4]

btw i heard that freedom maybe lost due to miss moon, zacard on his way in playoffs

[Who_Am_I]

Yeah there were some speculations about it but imo i think koreans aren't that kind of players(to losse on purpose so they can have easier way to finals).Maybe deadman or duck but no way freedom would do it ^^

[Sky][RunneR-]

i saw your replay about fiends and i know that they are good but u need a lot of micro on them cuz archers ownz them :/ dont you think?

[Who_Am_I]

Yes archers own them coz archers are meant to counter ranged(they have elune grace and ****). But you forget that fiends have 550 hp and with unholy aura they are pretty fast too. But the point with fiends is not to win early game. You need to hold on till tier3 and get destros and aboms and then it is really a pain in the ass for night elfs. Hipos don't counter destros(web), chims don't counter aboms(also web and focus with destros+fiends), bears also don't work coz abom>>bear 1v1+there is focus fire with destro+fiends. Anyway i think less skilled players will chose fiends and the better ones will chose gargs coz with gargs+ghouls you need more micro and more multi tasking and better timing.

[becks[07]]

well i watched a replay with this fiends guy,and omg he is imba but the most important thing that if he will play here he will be owned by lag :D

[brain-o-man]

:D sad but true:)

[Sky][RunneR-]

yeah maybe this will be the only server where he will be under 80% :P

btw. who_am_i u are telling that fiends are to hold the game till u get the des. but what about dryads. :rolleyes: des. cant attack dryads and with frenzy gnouls maybe but the FAN KNIFES ownz them and also the PANDA ownz the fiends so when they are drunken HUH prety hard to win dont you think :rolleyes:

[Who_Am_I]

Well find the replay http://www.esl-europe.net/eu/wc3l/season7/download/get/?file=241696&mirror=mmedia and you will see ultimate ***ness and imbalance. Just N/C...

[RockYz*4]

actualy i found really good strat vs that ****, its FE bcz if he goes fiends its take a lot of time until he is ready to attack, then DR + mass archers + talons + potm with mass upgrades on archers, and also dual scrolls + pot of invu on potm, later cyclons, uh on non tavern? start with DH no nova nuke ^^

sky][runner : actualy guys with fiends creep hardcore, those nukes, orb, ff everything is GG for ur heroes, even with potions its hard.

ye btw, i had also 2nd start vs that **** dr + archers + naga [later dryads +talons] with mega pressure if u allow him creep ur naga will be more in altar then on grass

uh and ofcourse i have my 3rd strat was is rlly insane, 1 mw, 1 altar, huntresshall, mw, tower, tech, DH first, Kotg second, max harass, tech straight to 2 dryads, and hardcore to 4 bears then u must attack, he will not have any kind of destros of course staff of preservation is must...i found this strat rlly easy even owned some UD bellow 10 mins with bears ^^, ye btw he mass tower? get an expansion and do whatever just dont mass more bears, ud has 2 choises mass destro\mass banshee (scout is the key)... ye so u exped then attack towers dont worry about bears what die at least if tey die from tower = no exp to opo =]

Becks[07] : No, just do fiends + destros + 3 heroes, creep, exp, towers to milion, and camp, btw u have lot of free time, u wanna piss off ppl, u wanna win for almost sure? do phils strat =]

[Who_Am_I]

Well my strat vs that is beastmaster, fast expand,naga 2nd or DR and mass ranged and if i can tech harder than he can then i also add bears while he still doesn't have frost/destro.