Best first heros

[Badass_PT]

hello, i would like to know what u guys think that is the best hero to start a game in each race (counting the mercenary ones)

IMO:

For NE the best first hero is Keeper Of The Groove

For UD the best first hero is Lich

For Orc the best first hero is Far Seer

For Human the best First hero is Mountain King

The most usefull hero of the mercenaries is the Naga Sea Witch, but i would nevere choose her as first :rolleyes:

[Terrorboy]

Man sorry, what ****s u write here??? For humans in 90% games best hero Archmage and MK as 2nd. Deadknightis the same for UD what Archmage for humans... lich is good as 2nd ussually... And for elves all heroes are good, but I think POTM is not good as 1st.....and if u have tavern and play NE u can take Beastmaster becoz elves need some might at start of game! Naga is very very good but she will be raped in 1.17-reduce speed to 270! About orcs I also think farseer is the best choice becoz imbalanced wolves, and also good chainlighting...(btw. WaterElemental is also imbalanced n/c, u can control 3, each with 925 life, it is funny..)

[Metalix]

hu vs orc = first hero Archmage second mk
hu vs und= first hero Paladin second mk
hu vs ne = first hero ARchmage second mk
hu vs hu =first hero archmage(second mk) or first hero paladin second mk


orc vs hu = fs + tauren chiftain
orc vs und= fs + tauren chiftain
orc vs orc= fs + tauren chiftain
orc vs ne =fs + tauren chiftain

In some of these cases tauren can be replaced with shadow hunter .. and plz DON`T tell me that BLADEMASTER is good as a first hero ...

UND VS HU = DK + LICH + CL
UND VS ORC = DK + LICH
UND VS NE = DK + LICH
UND VS UND = LICH + DK (DREADLORD)

to night elfs u tell me becouse i don`t know as well as ne players

[Terrorboy]

Man tell me why u wanna use palladin vs human as first hero? Give me one reason! Without archmage human is 30% weaker. I know is hard play with AM vs Ud coz nuke, but top players still use AM+MK+pall! And I tell u 2 humans players at the same skill play, if 1 take Am and another pall this with AM will win for sure...

[Arie-]

ud v hu: DK, lich, CL
ud v orc: CL, DK, (optional DR, DL or PL)
ud v NE: DK, lich, CL or DK, CL, lich
ud v ud: DK, lich, DL(DR), or lich, DK, CL, or DK, panda, lich

hu v hu: AM, MK (naga), pally (MK)
hu v orc: AM, MK, pally
hu v elf: AM, MK, pally, or AM, BM, or AM, naga, MK
hu v ud: AM, panda, MK, or AM KM pally, or pally, MK, AM, or any other combo with panda -.-

orc v hu: FS, TC, SH
orc v orc: FS, SH, TC
orc v elf: FS, TC, SH
orc v ud: FS, TC, SH, or FS, naga, SH

ne v hu: dunno
ne v orc: dunno
ne v ne: PotM solo
ne v UD warden, panda :mad: :mad: :mad:


correct me if im wrong

[Terrorboy]

Arie- napisał(a)


hu v hu: AM, MK (naga), pally (MK)
hu v orc: AM, MK, pally
hu v elf: AM, MK, pally, or AM, BM, or AM, naga, MK
hu v ud: AM, panda, MK, or AM KM pally, or pally, MK, AM, or any other combo with panda -.-

correct me if im wrong [/B] I think the same...NE vs Hu: DH next naga make me really :mad:

[sakky]

hu vs hu AM MK pal
hu vs or AM MK
hu vs NE AM MK
hu vs UD AM MK pal

bloodmage is stupid in solo. sometimes vs orc its good to get beastmaster since he makes army which costs u 0 food, and u need him for good tanking. nah, beastmaster is good stuff, helps u to get mass to your army, if u find yourself in need for that--> beastmaster coming. for me, it isnt good as first in most of games, no matter he is excellent. reason? militia creep:)

[sakky]

u wanna piss human player with other races?
here u go:

NE combo DH+naga going fast on bears, almost totally unstoppable for AM +footies (and bears are really hard time for human, thats why human tries to stop that):mad: but not matter that, most important that u cant have micro by pulling footies back before they die. arrrg that ***** slowing them down:mad:
UD DK + lich nuke to make my hero running away (and u start killing rest of army:mad: ), coiling my running raway rifles from kilometer away:mad:
ORC = AOE FS+TC and attack move by grunts while i must micro on other side:mad:

other stuff? well worse thing is known bug in plunder isle, which can help u creep red camp ogres by my exp defending towers:mad: lame but effective:o that work vs any race:D

[Terrorboy]

Sakky dont tell me u build footies vs elf?? I think rifles are always better, coz u can creep with militia... If he do huntss he will rape u greatly:) with rifle u can beat huntss and archers... And support bears with driads is more effective. It still can be beaten by human with knights, rifle+focus fire, mortars and spellbreakers which also steal roar and renjuvation! Look: They do extra 24 damage vs mana-units so effective damage vs bears is about 36 average I think...I think this is the most imbalance matchuop human vs elf...

[Badass_PT]

i think that kotg is the best hero against any race, u just have to have good micro, entargling runing troops, its excelent to anoy oponents, next, get the naga, and the game is a step from the victory.

Btw, a tier1 balanced army(humnteress, archers) with kogt, pawn the asses of your rifleman any time, yes, thats true that hunteresses have weak armor agains the rifleman attack (unarmored vs piercing), but so do the rifleman have weak armor against the hunteress attack (Normal vs Normal) plus u got the glaive jump that damages +1 unit and more hit points. the only thing that the rifleman has better than hunteress is more damage.

[Terrorboy]

Sure u can make mass archers or huntress...if u are so stupid:) If I camping and tier 2 mortars or wizards will come to fight your army will be crushed like little children...:cool: thats sad true: human is imba vs NE. On my acca i have about 25 losses maybe 3-4 from NE...

[Badass_PT]

i wasnt talking about massing anything, :confused: i was talking about making a balanced army with 4-6 archers + 3-4 hunteress +Kogt.

Sorry but whos gonna get crushed it will be your mortar team+wizzards. archers kill wizards like stealing a candy from a baby:D , Kogt to stop the mortars with entargling roots, and hunteress to fight the rest. unless u have +5-7 footies u will go down on the ground.:o :confused:

[Terrorboy]

Badass_PT napisał(a)
i wasnt talking about massing anything, :confused: i was talking about making a balanced army with 4-6 archers + 3-4 hunteress +Kogt.

Sorry but whos gonna get crushed it will be your mortar team+wizzards. archers kill wizards like stealing a candy from a baby:D , Kogt to stop the mortars with entargling roots, and hunteress to fight the rest. unless u have +5-7 footies u will go down on the ground.:o :confused: no:D

[Badass_PT]

no?:eek: lol, just tell me why

[Terrorboy]

Ok. Its simple, Mortars do EXTRA damage vs unarmored units: huntss, talons driuids, driads etc.! Also in tier3 they have special upgrade and do EXTRA damage vs medium armor: archers, giants etc. And they attack has area effect! And range 1150! How u gonna entagle them?U must go near and be sure u will be first kill by FatLittleMan with hammer becoz KOTG is easy to kill, its not DH or Warden :) If u dont have driads, only archers and huntss, then rifle+sorceress is enough:) Its ok???

Edit: Aha u write huntss vs rifle "normal vs normal". Sorry man but rifleman has medium armor:)

[sakky]

man he upgrades fast on bears, hey so u go only rifles? LOL, rifles CANT BEAT hunts by their own, they need few melee in front.
archers >> rifles, hunts >> foots. but if u mix it is very good comb.
u hear bad, since human allways watch NE for ensureing that NE wont get bears and dryards, w/o any damage to make that weaker. breakers CANT stop bears by their own. they need melee. knights, yes, if u get tier3. but opponent gets bears faster if he plays that strat good.
i stop building footies after some time, true, and i go rifles. but if u kill footies, i wont wait tier3 to have melee again, i will build few foots again, few to stop hunts.

[sakky]

sure, bear does 15 damage to breakes, or about 60, and they attack faster? i must pull them back, i dont use just attack move with them, they need good control, except if opponent is stupid to just dont think about it. hey bear attacks faster, has more hps, does FAR MORE DAMAGE TO BREAKERS also.
overall, bear is better for that amount of money and food he represents. breakers are hit and run there mostly, coz enemy gets bears on them if he is smart. and roar roar roar roar = no bonus, but NE keeps mana for rejuv for events after battle. not my fault. cheaper strat, faster to get, stronger than bears +knights, easier to control, hard to opponent to control, better focus. u need more arguments?

rifles+knights+breakers vs bears+dryards+archers. opponent wont make 20 dryards, just few of them to have noobelf event to opponent like "i cant micro". dont tell me about it. i dont let opponent to go that strat w/o damage by rushing him. he ll pay for that, or maybe lose game. but i can let newbie to go any strat, i will win since he wont control units good.
dryard dispells slow, and u cant dispell their slow.

its like those stories of " i cant kill giant, he is strong counter". and noone thinks how much it costs.

[sakky]

hey also, one good hint (and a short one:P):

try fight rifles only vs hunts only. most of NE dont get it. footmans are those which make hunts weaker, since they are holding them. NE should mix too.
NE vs HU is imbalanced since NE talons+archers is bad, faerie is back on them, ok they will throw againaand at the end NE and human will both have faerie fire on units. but cyclone is back on them. and u cant change that. also rilfe+ few foots make NE talons +archers so weak.
bear tech isnt weak, at all. it is very strong. but if human gets u while teching u re in trouble. u can still defend yourself and get that. then u are in advantage. hey, but most of NE try to fight out of moonwell range adn "building fighters". and as they are still weaker since they are outnumbered, they lose.

[Terrorboy]

OMG, 3 last answers are yours! It takes whole page! And it isnt first time! Its too lonf for me-didnt read! U should write books man, not play w3:g Only 1 thing rifles>>>archers (more HP) archer-240 HP/2=120 per food, rifle 505HP/3= about 180 per food, damage and range similar, so?
edit: sorry rifleman 169HP/per food i mean;) btw.this topic is about heroes,l so I suggest replace this discusion to humans or NE strategies:) And do you heard about **** called FOCUS FIRE? Maybe 1 huntress>rifleman but mass rifless>mass huntss:D

[Badass_PT]

Originally posted by Badass_PT
i think that kotg is the best hero against any race, u just have to have good micro, entargling runing troops, its excelent to anoy oponents, next, get the naga, and the game is a step from the victory.

Btw, a tier1 balanced army(humnteress, archers) with kogt, pawn the asses of your rifleman any time, yes, thats true that hunteresses have weak armor agains the rifleman attack (unarmored vs piercing), but so do the rifleman have weak armor against the hunteress attack (Normal vs Normal) plus u got the glaive jump that damages +1 unit and more hit points. the only thing that the rifleman has better than hunteress is more damage.


lol....

and u think when u get to Tier 3 i still will be fighting with Hunts and archers....lol

Btw Kogt has a casting range of 800 just needs to get a bit near.

[Badass_PT]

When i said (Normal vs Normal) i mean (Normal vs medium) theres is no normal armour

[Arie-]

spawn more overlords :D

[0nslaught]

HaHa ^^ I love Zerg.

[TheDarkWarlock]

i know that most hum players take mk as second hero, but i usually take pal becouse the archmage can die quick and with pal your heroes r almost unavaible to be harmed!

[Terrorboy]

Badass_PT napisał(a)
When i said (Normal vs Normal) i mean (Normal vs medium) theres is no normal armour Thx, i didnt know:D :D :D And hammer range is also 800 or bigger:D and 1 thing: u must have some arch/huntss in tier3....only if u dont build AOW, u dont have...NE is micro race, if all your arch/huntss die until t3 u should change race:)

I also tried this combo AM + pall and it works well...but with AM and his great aura, every 2nd hero works well:) now i back to AM+MK, or AM+naga , sometimes pall as 3rd or other similar combo, and it works better for me...I of course build few priests to heal or eventually buy healing potion if have enough money:)

[sakky]

sure. best combo of human generally = AM + MK. paladin goes as third, especially vs UD. but if u go rush someone, and u just got tier2, then it can be useful going one tavern hero. that is imbalance afterall, no delay, u get hero instantly, but its pretty cool:D and go sue me to blizzard:D

btw u can all try going only rifles vs only hunts. hunts win. thats why u need few footies:) but when u get long rifle, u can even use MK as good shield with eventually 1-2 foots. and rifles, ofcourse. sure, NE counters ranged with "tier1 melee" much harder than other races. with long rifles its hard time for hunts coz its even easier to focus. hey but archers are better than rifles in matchup:) too bad that pack of melee can make hard time for them:D so here we go again, u need hunts to cover them:P
MK bolt range isnt 800 but 600 i think:P coil range is 800!

[Terrorboy]

Interesting! I almost never do footies vs elves and its the easiest matchup for me:) MK + rifle is enough vs huntss/archers.....(clap, focus fire, clap, focus fire...). The reason is the elves players very often go hero rush vs hum and immidiatly huntsss...so I dont waste money for foots.

[cRun]

ye, archers/hunts >> footmans. Rifles/casters/mortars >> archers/hunts. :)

[D3V1ouSljenni]

sakky u r the man!again a whole page talkin to urself!!and that imbalance stuff!THIS IS ****!!MASS hunters beat mass rifles?may be without heroes!but how r gonna 2-3 elementals work?pretty well i suppose!Do u guys watch pro reps or discussions?NO of course!best hero vs hum is DH!dont harass in base!u will be rapped!!Harras the am!drink mana!kill footies!!then fast bears+4-5 dryads witch run around!1 hero-dh tries to get the 6 lvl and then ne advantage!/batmana does-3-4-5 expands!hunters and arch die then he comes on high after 30 sec!/

[Badass_PT]

well... by the games i've seen, playing and thinking in a strategie, i think that Undead can win pretty easly to ne, btw ne playing vs Undead is half lose to the ne player, just look at this:

Undead tier 1: Dk+ 2-3 ghouls + 3 Fiends vs Archers and hunteress --> hhmmm, its an even fight:rolleyes:

Undead Tier 2: Dk+CL + 5-6 fiends + 2-3 necromancers + 1-2 meat wagon vs Anything that ne's got...----> Ne's Doom aproaches....:(

Undead Tier 3: Dk+CL+ 3-4 fiends + 3-4 necromancers + 1-2 meat wagon + 2-3 abominatios (eventualy Destroyers if they get Druids or obsidian statues for mana and life) vs anything that ne's got....-----> Ne's Destruction!:eek:

plz someone tell my how is ne suposed to win Ud considering that the players have the same skills....:confused:

[D3V1ouSljenni]

NE most diff opp for UD!every1 knows this!!!crazy to make fiends vs ne?he takes they cannot make damage to fast and agile heroes like warden and dh!he just gets in throws a fan or drains then runs again-lose of food!necros..good but just 1-2 if more he takes a wisp or 2 and no skeletons!See a better strat-take the panda!beer and go home!make 2 crypts/no grave/get 6-7 ghuls and go creep!if daemon comes slow with beer and surround!tech to tier 2 and get 12-20 gargs!take a sec lich!By the gargs u force him go dryads/arch/hippo/talons-beer+fire+nova-no problemo!if too many dryads get a wagon or two!if too many talons get 1-2 destos!try out i defeated coldwave with this.then he raped me with infernal:( /

[Badass_PT]

hhhmmmm..... i wanted to know how do i win with ne vs und...
u told me how to win with ud vs ne... but ok;) tx anyway

[Terrorboy]

I am humma player, but I think Ne are in privileged position playing vs UD, becoz very good dispel from start of game, potions of invuln. and good antiair! ****, I think NE is very good race, but weak in tier1,2 and hard to play:(

[Arie-]

Originally posted by D3V1ouSljenni
NE most diff opp for UD!every1 knows this!!!crazy to make fiends vs ne?he takes they cannot make damage to fast and agile heroes like warden and dh!he just gets in throws a fan or drains then runs again-lose of food!necros..good but just 1-2 if more he takes a wisp or 2 and no skeletons!See a better strat-take the panda!beer and go home!make 2 crypts/no grave/get 6-7 ghuls and go creep!if daemon comes slow with beer and surround!tech to tier 2 and get 12-20 gargs!take a sec lich!By the gargs u force him go dryads/arch/hippo/talons-beer+fire+nova-no problemo!if too many dryads get a wagon or two!if too many talons get 1-2 destos!try out i defeated coldwave with this.then he raped me with infernal:( / and what if he goes warden/panda? These strats require polishing very much, but its only good vs noobs. I stopped using this, simply cuz i started getting loses from it. I use ghouls/aboms/destros and some fiends to counter a NE army. Many scrolls of course.

[D3V1ouSljenni]

U call coldwave a noob!!:D U cool man!I wanna see u play vs cold!!/=lose from cold/!!I have always played with ghuls/aboms/destos!And now i will tell u how batmana+cold always rapped me!-warden+4-5 hunters+3-4 arch!gets the exp,then tier2-1-2 giants!+2-3 bears and u are rapped!!!aboms are taunted to the giants and start walkin around after u recoordinate them to hunters!in this time ne focuses aboms 1 by 1 with hunters+arch+shadowstrike!aboms cannot hold more than 10 sec!then destos are useless vs dryads+archers!If u let ne go heavy ground ud is doomed!!UD should force ne go anti-air and then with aoe spells destroy the anti-air!SO how to beat ud with ne?Go MASS tier1,get 1-2-3 exp and MASS everything u can!Most ud go to tier2 not very fast but relatively quick!so take ur expands and MASS MASS MASS!

[Arie-]

Originally posted by D3V1ouSljenni
U call coldwave a noob!!:D U cool man!I wanna see u play vs cold!!/=lose from cold/!!I have always played with ghuls/aboms/destos!And now i will tell u how batmana+cold always rapped me!-warden+4-5 hunters+3-4 arch!gets the exp,then tier2-1-2 giants!+2-3 bears and u are rapped!!!aboms are taunted to the giants and start walkin around after u recoordinate them to hunters!in this time ne focuses aboms 1 by 1 with hunters+arch+shadowstrike!aboms cannot hold more than 10 sec!then destos are useless vs dryads+archers!If u let ne go heavy ground ud is doomed!!UD should force ne go anti-air and then with aoe spells destroy the anti-air!SO how to beat ud with ne?Go MASS tier1,get 1-2-3 exp and MASS everything u can!Most ud go to tier2 not very fast but relatively quick!so take ur expands and MASS MASS MASS! I dont call coldwAve a noob, i even dont know him. If i fight MGs, i have no problem, and if you do, u lack micro, also, did you know that if you try to pull a unit away from FF, they dont die?

[D3V1ouSljenni]

Mgs=?ff=?

[RockYz*4]

haha MGs = mountaingiants, FF= focusfire, URN = u r n00b :D (joke)

[Badass_PT]

Originally posted by D3V1ouSljenni
U call coldwave a noob!!:D U cool man!I wanna see u play vs cold!!/=lose from cold/!!I have always played with ghuls/aboms/destos!And now i will tell u how batmana+cold always rapped me!-warden+4-5 hunters+3-4 arch!gets the exp,then tier2-1-2 giants!+2-3 bears and u are rapped!!!aboms are taunted to the giants and start walkin around after u recoordinate them to hunters!in this time ne focuses aboms 1 by 1 with hunters+arch+shadowstrike!aboms cannot hold more than 10 sec!then destos are useless vs dryads+archers!If u let ne go heavy ground ud is doomed!!UD should force ne go anti-air and then with aoe spells destroy the anti-air!SO how to beat ud with ne?Go MASS tier1,get 1-2-3 exp and MASS everything u can!Most ud go to tier2 not very fast but relatively quick!so take ur expands and MASS MASS MASS!


.... for that what about 2 meat wagons (full) + 4-5 Cript fiends (with web) + 3 necromancers + 2 banshees +2 statues! and u are owned! (eventually 1-2 frozen dragons)
:rolleyes:

if u dont put autocast in the in the necromancers u may be in trouble, but if u take care with the dispelling of the wisps u will take out all the wisps and your necros still have some mana to end the rest.

Btw, Dryads abolish magic suxx, because it doesnt have are effect, u can only target 1 unit...:(

[Arie-]

Originally posted by D3V1ouSljenni
Mgs=?ff=? OWNED :D
nub
:D

[sakky]

yeah only smart stuff this 21sda65sd1a6da6d1 said was that DH is good for mana drain and that strat he mentioned makes realy hard time for human.
good player in a good mood and playing solid his game wont let NE to harass like so with DH in his base. if its problem let it be. coz human builds tower against early rush, so think about it. like UD nerubian. point is to make rush weaker.
terrorboy, going mass any unit is a BAD IN A WAY for sure. if enemy see what u re doing, u ll get in trouble. and going rifles instantly.... sure NE gets exp, DH can creep instead of trying to harass u when enemy see what u re up to. hey i change my strat if i think its good change it for some reason, by what enemy goes etc.
to badass_pt:
NE vs UD? better focus, best antiair units. watch what enemy does. if u see a LOT of ghouls, then get huntresses in front. if u see also gargs, build reasonable number of hypos, or up your talons to handle with them. or get few hypos also.

[sakky]

hunts >> rifles. with long rifle its hardtime for hunts. on start they can be good. their stuff is to be like footmans, stop melee to get archers (and counter in a way on tier1). archers >> rifles. mix army! and if hunts would be like grunts vs rifles then it would realy ****, because they would be again used on tier3 and see this archers >> rifles and hunts >> rifles, hunts >> footmen. again mass huntresses only, yeah thats what NE needs. bears werent used just because of hunts being so good while they werent countered by ranged like now. 225 range + faster speed vs 400 range and slower speed. and hunts attack stronger that rifles in overall. long rifles shoud make NE going on bears for protection. DotC are upgraded fast. and they >> knights. u build lot of bears and then upgrade them on master when tier3 comes. hard time comes. coz ppl cant get knights like so. and???? bears vs rifles is something like knights vs rifles.

[Arie-]

sakky, sorry, but next time try to write your thoughts in less lines pls :D

[Terrorboy]

Sakky, stop saying bull****s pls.....:) Every1 tell u rifles owns huntsss, especially on the long rifles...:) And doing lots of rifles is ALMOST ALWAYS good for humans...they are ONE OF THE BEST HUMANS UNITS and can support any others units and heros! And its obvious they must be supported other units...End of discussion:)

[D3V1ouSljenni]

I told u!!!Giants stop the whole land army of the undead!!!!Giants rulezzzz!!!And Ud can stop them only with bones/too late and u have to tier fast/or MASS aboms!!!but mass aboms are too easily countered with heroes+1-2 hymeras+2-3 dryads+1 giant!!!So ud has to go MASS garg with aoe spels to destroy anti-air-only possibility!!If u go anything else u let ne get 1-2-3 expands and are doomed!!!Ne should go mass expands with MASS of all units!!

[Arie-]

no :D
Sakky: learn :D :D :D

[Badass_PT]

Originally posted by sakky
yeah only smart stuff this 21sda65sd1a6da6d1 said was that DH is good for mana drain and that strat he mentioned makes realy hard time for human.
good player in a good mood and playing solid his game wont let NE to harass like so with DH in his base. if its problem let it be. coz human builds tower against early rush, so think about it. like UD nerubian. point is to make rush weaker.
terrorboy, going mass any unit is a BAD IN A WAY for sure. if enemy see what u re doing, u ll get in trouble. and going rifles instantly.... sure NE gets exp, DH can creep instead of trying to harass u when enemy see what u re up to. hey i change my strat if i think its good change it for some reason, by what enemy goes etc.
to badass_pt:
NE vs UD? better focus, best antiair units. watch what enemy does. if u see a LOT of ghouls, then get huntresses in front. if u see also gargs, build reasonable number of hypos, or up your talons to handle with them. or get few hypos also.




herr...my question wasnt aswered yet....what if? i see:

Necromancers + meatwagons + cryipt fiends +ghouls(or abominations) + 1 frost wyrm
:confused:

with this tactic, ud are almost unbeatable by ne!! (if the players have the same skills)

and dont come say that u will take wisps to war!because if the wisps are taken to dispell enemy skeletons the ne's army will be wekened, and if the ud player is smart, he will not have auto-cast in the skeletons, and the wisps will be all gone because they have a small area of effect

so master necromancers have 400mana (i think) raise skeletons are 75mana

it takes 1 wisp to dispell 2(max 4 skeletons) well, it will be necessary to dispell all skeletons that a *single* necromancer raises (75x5=375) 5 wisps (60x5=300) it means that u will spend 300 gold!! your economy will be ruined!

AND

while u are micro the wisps, your units are being raped from behind! u cant have time to do everything....:rolleyes: your units are being slowed by the wyrm, hunts/druids of talon/dryads will be raped by the crypt fiends and meat wagons, bears will be raped by wyrm, giants/ archers being raped by the skells/ ghouls or abominations.

AND :( (to finish;) ) if u try to make air units like kimeras/hippograph riders/hippograps u will only waste money, because they are raped by the crypt fiends(web)




so.... tell me....

ps: im sorry for making so big reply ;)

[brain-o-man]

archers rape that wyrm,and necros,bears rape fiends,and u can dispell it all,and drain necros mana,aint all that bad as u said

[Terrorboy]

Sorry baddas but u are UD lvl 7 or 8, 45% win, I think u should listen Arie he is good guy:/ And take this discussion to NE forum, this one is about heroes, ok? And remember: Human >> all:D

[Badass_PT]

haha, i dont care about what my profile tells... its not the truth anyway...(diskers/server bugs/quitter TP/sever crash) btw, i challenge u to a 2v2cg anytime, with my friend Don___ i wanna see if u win us...



Any way...about that what brain-o-man said, ghouls and skeletons rape archers.....

dont tell me that archers will solve all this.

Btw, brain-o-man, i won u 1-2x not much time ago with ne's(and wasn any lag or bug, because i had the same lag)...so, dont think that im noob, and i dunno what im talking about...
;)

[Terrorboy]

Np man. Everyone here has bugs/lagz/discz losses not only u! Remember this! About 2v2 cg is funny, maybe your friend is really gosu, and he can win for u:) I tell u only me and my friend ThornYorke rapped better then u, so no problem:)

[Badass_PT]

hahahha, my friend wins for me...LOL... no, i choose him, because i play a lot with him, and we have our own tactics, that work very well.

Its a deal or what? do u accept?

since the begining of this thread u've been threating me like a noob, then lets see if u are better;)

[Terrorboy]

NP man. I can play 1v1 vs u. I really dont know if my friend play still here, becoz I didnt seen him after server crushed:/ He was good player, and I think maybe he was angry and go play only on org now:/ Belive me, he is really AT gosu. I can find another ally, np. But 1v1 is needed.

I cant understand, why you still say about your ally? It was discussion about GAME 1v1 NE VS UD, NOT TEAMS! So...? are u so afraid, that you must change topic..?;)

[Badass_PT]

Originally posted by Terrorboy
... I really dont know if my friend play still here, becoz I didnt seen him after server crushed:/ He was good player, and I think maybe he was angry and go play only on org now:/ Belive me, he is really AT gosu. I can find another ally, np...

I cant understand, why you still say about your ally? It was discussion about GAME 1v1 NE VS UD, NOT TEAMS! So...? are u so afraid, that you must change topic..?;)


1st paragraph: do u only play with really gosu players? are u affraid of what i may be cappable of doing?

2nd paragraph: what the #%$@£§ are u talking about??

[Terrorboy]

1: Man, I really dont need friend to play instead me! I can beat you alone! But if u must, of course u can hide behind your friend...

2:Read carefully earliers posts and you will be know....

[Terrorboy]

And he was lvl 12 solo like me, if u wanna know, but in team we beated players >>20

[D3V1ouSljenni]

NE wins its games in beggin not in battles!!!THERE is no other race witch takes so fast expands and defend so easy!!!IF u have ur exp u will have enou money to make well upgr MG and the other is just micro!

[sakky]

nekros are stupid units, easy counterable. i saw madfrog won 2 tours in a row this summer with nekro start all the time. or when nekros werent main thing, they were drawing enemy on wrong way. hey like vs grubby cool way of using nekros, 2-0 win. first game he went few nekros and grubby got walkers to counter that after. madfrog upgraded banshees and built few of them. grubby was going taurens + walker master, to use those few walkers. guess what? nah u guess
2nd game he went totally on MASS NEKROS and >> grubby. thats because grubby has so bad micro, and play like nob:rolleyes:

think, nekros are similar to tower rush. if enemy see (or know) what u do, he goes to stop that. if u do it right, its excellent strat. i see in few last games madfrog plays with NE, he dont wanna show what strat will he be going strat:). i d like to see him again with that, then u would see half of northrend going nekros again.

[Terrorboy]

D3V1ouSljenni napisał(a)
NE wins its games in beggin not in battles!!!THERE is no other race witch takes so fast expands and defend so easy!!!IF u have ur exp u will have enou money to make well upgr MG and the other is just micro! no:) human FE is the easiest, especially on maps: Human Temple, 2 Rivers, Plunder isle, etc...all u need is AM+2 foots

[Arie-]

Originally posted by Terrorboy
no:) human FE is the easiest, especially on maps: Human Temple, 2 Rivers, Plunder isle, etc...all u need is AM+2 foots watch my replay on the replay thread and you'll see how to deal with that :D

[Terrorboy]

I know its easy to break Fe, I mean that human creep the fastest and build the fastest, so their FE is the fastest (sorry for repeating:D )

[D3V1ouSljenni]

sakyy if u want to tell u how to defeat noobs plz dont!!!we r talkin about gosus!

[Pan43]

Hu:Archamage Orc:BladeMaster Un:DeathKnight Ne:KeeperOfTheGrove

[Terrorboy]

Hum AM, orc FS, undead DK, elves KOTG=DH, neutral naga *****=beastmaster.

Any other suggestions?

[Arie-]

Originally posted by D3V1ouSljenni
sakyy if u want to tell u how to defeat noobs plz dont!!!we r talkin about gosus! You're a gosu? Somehow i don't wanna believe that :D

[sakky]

one thing, he is so gosu to suceed in making stampede useless hey, u know how does he do that? he says lizzards are stupid coz u cant aim with them, so he decided to show how good he is and started roaming between lizzards. no lizzard could hit ANY of his units. GOSU; hey, tod didnt suceed doing that in his games, and no player even tried to bother witzh that. LOL.

if nekro strat is for noobs then what about what i said? how did madfrog beat those good players? because he played that strategy good, and showed it can be good strat. too bad, d6d6f6sdfsd4fs6df4s8 and his friends are gonna kick madfrog's ass, hey, that guy is a nub and goes only nub strats. wait for sfdgsdf4s+df6sdf8sd5s46d and his few friends to show us gg. hahhaahahahaa i cant stop laughing

[Terrorboy]

Man, he cant play of xpam becoz 2200 ping:D

[Arie-]

Originally posted by sakky
one thing, he is so gosu to suceed in making stampede useless hey, u know how does he do that? he says lizzards are stupid coz u cant aim with them, so he decided to show how good he is and started roaming between lizzards. no lizzard could hit ANY of his units. GOSU; hey, tod didnt suceed doing that in his games, and no player even tried to bother witzh that. LOL.

if nekro strat is for noobs then what about what i said? how did madfrog beat those good players? because he played that strategy good, and showed it can be good strat. too bad, d6d6f6sdfsd4fs6df4s8 and his friends are gonna kick madfrog's ass, hey, that guy is a nub and goes only nub strats. wait for sfdgsdf4s+df6sdf8sd5s46d and his few friends to show us gg. hahhaahahahaa i cant stop laughing Any strategy is good if you manage to defeat your enemy with it. This shows that players are bound to some strategies i.e., he plays one strat better than the other, for example, i can defeat hunts with ghouls, if i micro fast enough.

[Demonhide_PT]

bah...

Human: Archmage or Pala(only for ud or orc)
Orc: Farseer or Tauren
Night Elves: Keeper of The Groove or Priestess of The Moon
Undead: Death Knight or Crypt Lord


this of corse depends on the tactics u use, and the hero who u are more used to, of corse will be more efective

anyway, these are just tips...

[Who_Am_I]

OMFG OMFG. ROFL ROFL@ Potm or Kotg first. Crazy or? Go go go to hospital man maybe you still have a chance HURRY!!!!!

[sakky]

Originally posted by Arie-
Any strategy is good if you manage to defeat your enemy with it. This shows that players are bound to some strategies i.e., he plays one strat better than the other, for example, i can defeat hunts with ghouls, if i micro fast enough.

but i hear like "only noobs use that strat". lol. if madfrog is considered as noob then ok. all ppl are noobs in a way:D
it also depends on how do players control their units. and on size of your army. beating opponent with better micro, yeah. but it comes to some limit where u cant beat some ppl with having beter micro, if u have significantly weaker army (or maybe u can in 1: 50 chances), since they micro army very good also. and thats why u need to have same conditions. u can beat some ppl with hp nerf like 80%. but its hard to do same stuff against some players who is skilled like u. and i dont wanna say that ghouls cant counter hunts, but main UD weapon is their hero spells, all ppl know that:).

[Who_Am_I]

I think that micro is very overrated. I'll post a few reason why i think so.

Ok here we go. I find that strategyes and expoing right units and upgrades can't losse vs a bad strat and godlike micro. I think that micro can't win with bad strat. And by this bad strat i don't think massing acolytes or smt. I mean like going grunts+catas while i have archers+talons+dryads+beastmaster+panda. They get countered in every single aspect. 90% of my games are won with superior strats(or maybe abusage i dunno) and not by micro.Clear example now. Let's say UD on LT is playing NE and he is going for 3 hero frenzy ghouls and decides to creep with DK+ghouls on begining. While he is going to level 2 i'm already level 2 with an expo and at that point game is over coz there is nothing he can do.And when he gets his 3 hero+ghouls+statues i will be still at teching disadvantage but with big resource advantage and he can have GODLIKE micro but there is no way for him to win coz i will have population advantage, atack/armor upgrades advantage and coz i'll have lot of money for healing potions/invul/teleport so you see that strategyes>>>micro.I mean if i face grunts catas with hunts/archers i don't even need to try to micro i just say GG coz i got owned in by superior strat and there is no way to win gruntapult with hunts archs. Keep in mind i'm saying that we have equal number of troops. The extreme case was when i played vs and orc and he had wind riders/grunts/catas/radiders/2 hero and i had only hunts and archers. But it was like 3 aow :P I had like 10 hunts and 30 archers 2-2 atack/armor upgrade :P And once a again MICRO IS OVERRATED AND APM IS OVERRATED TOO. The brain solves , not the apm/micro.

[Odyn]

i think that gruntz and catas wuold win with archers, talons, panda, beastmaster and driads.

[Terrorboy]

Who_Am_I napisał(a)
I think that micro is very overrated. I'll post a few reason why i think so....

.... And once a again MICRO IS OVERRATED AND APM IS OVERRATED TOO. The brain solves , not the apm/micro. I must agree here, my apm is very weak (about 60) but I won lost of games with people apm about 90-100. But few races need more micro (NE), few intelligence(human), some need nothing (orc). I have 1 question to you guys. New server is good, but ultra buggy, more then old!!! On 100 games I have 20 wins not counted and 10 bug losses:/ Is it only me, or u also, or is it my imagine, or what??????

[Demonhide_PT]

true... but tatic is not the only thing needed, micro is important, but, micro and good tatic are the essencial, a tatic is nothing without micro, if u let all the soldiers die, u cant accomplish a tatic

[Demonhide_PT]

Originally posted by Who_Am_I
OMFG OMFG. ROFL ROFL@ Potm or Kotg first. Crazy or? Go go go to hospital man maybe you still have a chance HURRY!!!!!


.....idiot... who will u use in 1v1 agains orc?? demonhunter?? warden??


Who will u use in 2v2 vs Elves or undead??DemonhunteR??


maybe its u who needs a hospital, or learn to play....

[Terrorboy]

hmmmmm......elves is only race which heroes are almost equal:) Any of them is overused, like human AM, orcish FS or undead DK:rolleyes:

[Demonhide_PT]

hhmmm... thats not 100% true, but ok

[Terrorboy]

I say ALMOST equal, not equal. Look at hero usage on battlenet:) AM >40%, FS, DK-the same.:rolleyes:

[tyrq]

hehehe I tell you all one:
ne tier 1 <<< hum tier 1.
Some players writed about archers are goon on riflemans, that alone riflemans are <<< hunts, that kotg will become mortar team`s killer.... LOOOOOOOOOOOOL I lought YOU ALL IN FACE !!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAH sorry guys but When NE was tier one NEVER I SAID NEVER, I loose to ne after when my acc become 6lvl to 14lvl + soccerer icon =). Problem is when bears come, but its problem for another disscusion.
First of all: Listen to Terrorboy, he is right.
2) when archers alone - 3footmans + rest of riflemans + Blizzard. I remebr a game when ne do mass archers + pom (its smart for rifles) but I give my AM blizzard and lock how my riflemans shotting when archers was moved from place to place from blizzard. archers = no problem
2) alone hunters = LOL even mass I always have one barax and do mass riflemans, even when my 3 standart footmans die. Riflemans just do extra damage to hunters and key to kill biggest army of hunts is focus fire one by one, and back, scroll, and push. Or push base when hunters hall is building.
3) archers + hunts, - the same + blizz, just hunts and archers stand in group. when we got first tier 2 (often when there are archers or hunts or both) we own with mortars, mortars behaind rifles, not easy to kill....
just gg

[Who_Am_I]

OMFG OMFG PotM user tells me that i'm noob omfg. T_T learn to play. Btw just say when and where will we see who is n00b. OK Kotg/potm user? And yeah i don't need to learn to play. I see only one guy who needs to learn to play. I have tryed going KotG vs orcs both warden and DH are better. Maybe we could get this over with just by saying me your level.

[Demonhide_PT]

look, im no NE's user, but if u wanna learn see replays of Imortal_noob

[Who_Am_I]

Why should i watch his replays. He's certanly not gosu.I have nothing to learn from him. Except ladder abusing.

[Demonhide_PT]

........lol........

well... try learning with DIM3t3's replays then

[Demonhide_PT]

BTW, im level 7 at team games and level 7 at solo games... Got a problem with that?

[Terrorboy]

dont discuss with this whoami, guys. Its waste of time I think.

[sakky]

AM, DK, FS. sure. and beastmaster? realize that elves are those who get that hero as first mostly then. also, potm? yeah elf vs elf, in some cases, but NOT vs human or orc for sure, ud hhhhahaaha. human best choice vs other human = ? guess who. vs orc?? guess who goes mostly again. vs elf? let me guess, paladin maybe?:D UD? well mostly same hero. like elf goes warden or DH vs most of races. or beastmaster, thats why the percentage is so lower...... or u forgot that part of the story?:D

well now it is much corrected for choosing tavern hero, so all races can go tavern (in 1.16 u could buy hero in 18:00, biggest problem why only elf was going so if not going their agility heroes)

demonhide, try getting beter micro, then u ll realize why W_A_I says they are best choice. u can go potm but elf vs elf. in rest of case sit isnt so good. but........ even elf vs elf u can go DH. and he ll be good choice:)

[Who_Am_I]

Yeye talking to me is waste of time coz i'm right and you are wrong.Guess what. How can someone who has 5 times less skill than i do discuss about better hero choices with me?It's like me saying madfrog what strat to use vs orc. How can somebody tell me to watch replays of player who is weaker than me? Why is it waste of time to talk to me? This is why this game is so retarded. Coz like here newbs come on official forum and post opinions about balance. This is why this game is ****ed up. Listening whining newbs is leading to nothing but biger imbalance. FS was nerfed for what? n00b whining. Also the KotG. Also the DK who wasn't overporwered like n00bs say he is. Ahh i would like to see you in action with your uber skilz and excelent strats.Yes i'm mad if you didn't realize that.Btw let's go PotM first vs human. And let's watch dimete replays. Maybe we could be progamers some day.

[Who_Am_I]

Yeah and about 2v2 random team players i have some news for you. I read one very nice thing and it said:"Only in solo you can show your real skill, that's why i play RT". And he was high level in rt and had bad stats in solo.

[Demonhide_PT]

keep, saying.... u are my hero:D :D :D :D

u must be the only good player arround.
get a life:mad: :mad:
and i keep saying, best heroes are those wich the player is most used, not those u say that are the best... if u are used to an hero, u know its weakness and strengths.

[Terrorboy]

Madfrog and Insomnia are good players, not you:D so we dont listen you;)

[sakky]

madfrog and insomnia are gosus. some ppl call gosus all ppl with high level, they dont get it that gosu is players who is matched with best of the best. thats all.
most used heroes are DH and warden generally (and tavern campaign for elf). adn potm cant be your general choice (but its solid vs elf).
what is madfrog to very good players, thats whoami for such newb (demonhide dont try potm rush plz in solo:D). thats all. and there are such noobs in RT (not teling to this guy, but many noob retards in RT:mad: ) and thats what pissses me in RT and thats why i hate RT. for retarded noobs who say "i dont build altar coz i m going on tavern hero".

what is insomnia to very good player, thats whoami for this guy.
oh one more thing, blizzard never changes A THING for those whiners, they make their balance team who tests things. what makes really sucking imbalance, needs to be changed. they consider gargs are balanced, coz ppl can handle it on a way for example. and to handle such stuff is ALSO SOME OTHER IMBALANCE.

demonhide what to say, i m glad about u speaking in this discussion, that means u build your hero. not like retard about which i said above.

[Who_Am_I]

Ok i was arogant on that post above coz i was really mad. You are somehow right demonhide.If you play a hero a lot you know it's strenghts and weaknesses. I have a new acc which i'm going paladin first and so far my stats are 5-0 and i have replays but there are bugs and stats are 3-2 T_T.He is really usefull and i don't have any problems in any matchup except DH with mana burn. Some people will say paladain is worst 1st hero but they only watch gosu replays and don't try anything on their own.Paladin with defend footies is arguably the best hero creeper in game. Paladin have advantages over AM/BM/MK and that's why he can be used.He can't be replacement to AM. You must adapt your style and get used to it that you don't have infinite mana. He is very usefull in mirror matches and vs UD. But going PoTM and KoTG don't benefit you in any way.Why? Coz both keeper and potm have lower armor/damage/hp than warden/dh. Ne's army needs a strong tank that will hold their army while Dot's , dryads, archers are giving the firepower.And that tank is certanly DH with his high level evasion and mana burn he can stay very long under enemy fire. Why? Coz he can't bolt,coil,nova,stomp.... coz enemy has no mana, and he is very resistan to physical atacks coz of very high armor and evasion.And when he gets level 6 it's pretty much game over. About warden. He has probably one of top3 area of afect spells in game(fan of knives) and shadow strike is excelent spells for hero killing/slowing down runing units and stuff and with moon wells you almost always have mana for both spells. And with level 6 she is also a beast. I had many games where solo level 10 warden killed 3 high level UD heroes and some army. I bet kotg/potm wouldn't do that. I hope you will now get my point and see i'm right coz objectivly they are both far better than kotg potm. And don't look at hero usage on battlenet coz there it says solo 2v2 3v3 4v4 and ffa hero usage and we know how much is solo diferent from newbie 2v2 rt.

[sakky]

first let this clear, paladin isnt like DK, and those stories about putting him better than DK are stupid. we all know why paladin isnt good. why do u think paladin is better for creep than AM? human now has choice going bloodmage which is weaker for creep that AM in a way. against elves its totaly dumb going paladin. he is sgood with high level, ppl cant kill him, oh, they can but divine stops them (and i wasted my XP points in divine and heal). now see this, u kill rest of units. his best thing is healing other heroes. and healing units like knights in a way. but primary healing of other heroes. and he wont make my MK haiving enough mana for his great spells, main AM advantage. i DONT get briliane for AM or priests, if u watched good, priests have more than enough mana, AM can go blizzard + WE and have enough mana in a way. sorcs have increased mana cost of their slow, breakerse also, compare it with other races (bloodlust tier3 spell = 40 mana, slow 50 mana e.g.). main reason is MK!!!!! not AM or priests or any other ****.
plz just say, DID U RUSH THOSE PPL WITH PALADIN ALSO? i saw good replay where paladin was acting like DH and DK for annoying hit and run:D but player who played with human was 3 times better than his enemy. and rush is one of most important things with all heroes.

[Terrorboy]

Ok I am not so experienced player like Whoami, but i never belive pall better then AM to creep. Just tell me what u do if pall run out from mana?> u must back to base heal your units, or buy mana for him, eventually go to fountain of life. With AM, u always have mana for WE and he takes 80% damage (525 HP) for himself. And u dont need heal your units.

[sakky]

listen this: for first hero u must have hero which should be capable to make big damage in short time, NOT hero which will heal your units around. who's rushing better, shadow hunter or far seer, especially if u get heal as firts to SH? and even SH can heal himself. hey, one more thing, what do u think about paladin rush, since AM can be solid for rushing. AM is better for creeping for sure, since creeps attack WE and WE deals damage + absorbs damage. heroes with summons are better for creep than heroes which have no summons! only UD is exception in a way, they dont need summons so much like other races since they can heal their army with all those stuffs like canibalize etc..... but UD has also much summons.
what do heroes do on the start? rush, creep, creepjack. paladin for creepjacking? sure. creeping? ok can do it, but AM is much better. rushing? well if u suceed in rushing with paladin, then u would suceed in rush with any hero! no matter if its UD or not (and paladin can rush only UD with some effect in a way) there are better choices. ok he can defend himself. and what would i do with it? NOTHING, coz enemy can stop rushing, but probably wont, since he would be able to rush u goo anyway. hey ,AM is better for defending base also. paladin is good for hero heal, adn that pisses people off. u nuke only UD, if u get bigger level, but UD nukes your hero and u re busy to heal him mostly.

hey also for all those who say paladin is good for early rush, blizzard said few times, IF SOMEONE DOES IT WITH PALADIN, HE WOULD BE DO IT WITH ANY OTHER HERO. try it:)

[Who_Am_I]

AM better for defending from harass? I don't think so. And about Paladin ****y creeping what do you think about level 3 and book of dead in 3rd minute of game? It is posible withoud any risk on 2 maps but i won't tell you how. About mana: Maybe you could buy clarity potions sometimes it is really nice.

[Terrorboy]

thats what i said u must back to base, buy a potion or find a shop and waste time and money. And try do your trixs with AM, i am sure u can also find this book;)

[sakky]

basic stuff of choosing a hero as core of your army being first:
1. creep= am creeps faster, better, WE soaks damage
2. rush = am rush certainly better, u usually rush to make some important damage. when e.g. UD is upgrading fast and u go in UD base, u go kill acolites. WE is better, no matter 100 damage of heal to UD unit. u deal big damage by attacking with WE. and WE can eventually soak damage if enemy attacks him. try rush with paladin. then try rush with any oter hero. u ll see how good paladin is. even vs UD, only possible in a way rush with paladin is against UD. and still AM is better than him.
3. defend? heh u use holy light to heal units from attackers. and see this, Fs comes with wolves. he attacks, u heal. his wolves will deal much more damage than u can heal. ok u kill them, u ATTACK SUMMON NOT GRUNT: what did u get? u killed 2* 200 hit points units, and enemy is just standing while u are doing so.he just stands with Fs and grunts? sure. so, u spend heal on units few times, just because of those wolves. and wolves = 75 mana, Fs surely WILL HAVE MANA. paladin runs out of mana and becomes like regular unit. ok, bubt u missed also one thing, when e.g. DK or DH rush u, they usually tech fast. ok i go rush them with my paladin:D read above again, paladin rushes to stop tech so good. should i give a link of blizard? they said it soemwhere on their page, how good paladin is for those early rushes:cool: TOO IMBA. i think they said LOL on that:D
and i get briliance instead of blizzard. i CAN HAVE BLIZZARD AND BRILIANCE with AM, but i mostly get briliance! on 3-4 level its very possible. i DONT DO THAT. why? because I NEED AN OFFENSIVE SPELL like bolt, stun + damage + focus = one of best nukers in game. and MK is such hero, "duke-nukem". guess what? DK catching and coiling army is so good, and paladin can do that also but vs UD only, and STILL HARDER, coz he is slower (there goes that part of faster cooldown yeah, thats why). and even vs UD it isnt good like DK does that. u saw pitlord? his problem is= turn rate.

[sakky]

NOW goes other part, coz of whining about long posts:D whiners:D


paladin and pitlord have same turn rate, SLOWEST IN GAME (open worled editor and see datas). DK and DH have same turn rate, FASTEST IN W3 GAME! and only way to say paladin better than pitlord is = spending experience with DIVINE, whichis way to save his ass, or buy tons of heals and have KD to heal pitlord. and paladin = speedy gonzales, but that turn is his problem.
like why rifles have faster turn, and that makes them being better, no matter that fiends do better damage in overall. thats RIFLE advantage. one more rifle advantage = instant type of attack. but noob human players allways say rifles are bad coz of lower strength and lower damage. just noobish. like ghouls should be weaker than footmen, but then goes "tree move", worker collision", "ghost effect", max speed with DK, and yeah, that effect of NOT BEING POINTED! but which is noticed in guess what: ghouls and some creeps ( those frogs with canibalize). so much about it.

[D3V1ouSljenni]

why do u explain these things!!!!we all know them!!!we are not playing since yesterday!!

[sakky]

yes. all people know that. yet most of people are saying how humans arent aware how paladin is better than AM, but that humans play AM jsut because u need less micro. actually u need more micro to play with AM. i dont say that paladin is always bad choice as first, but even if enemy is undead, archmage can rush better, can creep better.

[Demonhide_PT]

Originally posted by Who_Am_I
Ok i was arogant on that post above coz i was really mad. You are somehow right demonhide.If you play a hero a lot you know it's strenghts and weaknesses. I have a new acc which i'm going paladin first and so far my stats are 5-0 and i have replays but there are bugs and stats are 3-2 T_T.He is really usefull and i don't have any problems in any matchup except DH with mana burn. Some people will say paladain is worst 1st hero but they only watch gosu replays and don't try anything on their own.Paladin with defend footies is arguably the best hero creeper in game. Paladin have advantages over AM/BM/MK and that's why he can be used.He can't be replacement to AM. You must adapt your style and get used to it that you don't have infinite mana. He is very usefull in mirror matches and vs UD. But going PoTM and KoTG don't benefit you in any way.Why? Coz both keeper and potm have lower armor/damage/hp than warden/dh. Ne's army needs a strong tank that will hold their army while Dot's , dryads, archers are giving the firepower.And that tank is certanly DH with his high level evasion and mana burn he can stay very long under enemy fire. Why? Coz he can't bolt,coil,nova,stomp.... coz enemy has no mana, and he is very resistan to physical atacks coz of very high armor and evasion.And when he gets level 6 it's pretty much game over. About warden. He has probably one of top3 area of afect spells in game(fan of knives) and shadow strike is excelent spells for hero killing/slowing down runing units and stuff and with moon wells you almost always have mana for both spells. And with level 6 she is also a beast. I had many games where solo level 10 warden killed 3 high level UD heroes and some army. I bet kotg/potm wouldn't do that. I hope you will now get my point and see i'm right coz objectivly they are both far better than kotg potm. And don't look at hero usage on battlenet coz there it says solo 2v2 3v3 4v4 and ffa hero usage and we know how much is solo diferent from newbie 2v2 rt.



1st of all, tx for the comprehension, ppl in this forum all look close minded...:p

i just wanted to tell, that i would *only* take potm in team games, and to get the aura, just take a look at this -> mass rifle mans + archers and hunteress with aura.... ->rox!


And Kogt is a very versatile hero, since he has entargling roots, that make the life hard to orc players in 1v1 IF u rush, orc has 1 grunt, and FS, u may have 1-2 archers (depending on the tactic) and kogt, u bind the grunt and kill him, next u can harass hero, AND when u get the thorns aura, is also VERY GOOD ideed in team games, and when u get the tranquility, its GG...;)

[Terrorboy]

trueshot good, thorn sux

[Demonhide_PT]

well, thorns aura for tier 1 night elves really sux, or for massing dryads or some units with low hp, but if u get giants and bears, and Specially if your TP chooses orcs, then it rox a bit;)