need help

[True2theCode]

i need advise from good humans. I wanna know how to stop orc in the second attack....u know human usually start is 4 footies AM then upgrade..while upgrading i make 2 more footies, lumber, blacksmith, shop and some farms, and then after upgrade i make MK rifle sorc etc....i can hold the orc rush easily but he gets TC faster than me coz orc upgrades faster so his second attack he attacks with TC 2lvl fs and 5-6 grunts by this time i have only 6 footies and AM and my MK is only making....no matter i hold this attack but i loose very much coz i need to call militia....and my micro is good thats for sure thats not the point....chain+wave ownz all footies i lost very much...and just 2 min later he comes already healed with shamans and more grunts...i just dont get it its so ****in imba and its very easy...even noob can do this with orc...........PLS some good human but i mean really good help me 80% of my looses in bnet are from orcs who play this tactic and its imba pls help me

[ViviIsNotNoob]

Human Must Play Like Human, it means u wust be smarter then opponent, think clearly: everybody knows that orc is just stupid beast, but very powerfull soo, like everywhere (i mean in fantasy) u must stop their leader not that "meats", of coz they will call u noob hero-killer, but who cares ? You ? If u do, then go play for orcs and do the same **** to every human players... But One day there will be a player who will do HeroKilling to you and u will lose, then u will start call him noob and he will not say anything he will just continue kill all ur heroes :) => soo where is Imba ?

Now for real :)

Creep ur Am till he get 3 lv then just push ORc at his base...
If u will destroy his borrow (also his peons will NOT work they will try to save his base) or shop (if he will see u attack shop he will TP to base -250 gold, and a chance to kill his hero next time) then u will be in good conditionbefore the 2nd battle even if u lose a couple of footies - magicians will rox...
But if u will only creep till ur Mk then of coz he will come to ur base and just smash u with 2 spells of his heroes...
Soo you need play more agressive, and somehow stupidly focus his FS, not grunts, coz they have more Hp + he awaits when u will focus them... If u focus his hero he will drop all his army be them self, coz he will be too busy to micro them while he try to retrire his FS, soo u easly kill all his wolves... (60exp)
Agressive style is the key, who think that is nooby, they just lose... And ussualy that thoughts is going from orcs only :)

[Demonhide_PT]

n/c

if u wanna beat orc, when he gets fs+tc (99,8% times) you must have scrolls of healing in both mk and AM, and when u get sorcs, au must go to his base, to rush his burrows, when he comes, just run away untill u have priests, if its him who attack u, if u dont have sorcs u are dead, but if u have sorcs, try to put him fighting with summons,and call militia

remember, 65 + 75 = 140 / 1 scroll of healing = 150hp, imba

if u dont wanna buy scrolls, u have to fight with summons

(try AM + BM + FL)

[Terrorboy]

Playing on my host I ussuall beat orc....if I am no host I ussualy lost. For me this matchup is good balanced, but IMBA lag>>all and orc has advantage here, becoz he need 30% less micro then human, so he can also play well in lagz.

My strategy is: AM+2 footies+militia to get AM lvl 2 (if possible). Then he will propably attack you, but u already has hero lvl 2 and this is advance. And I send my footies to base when they have half life. Arcane tower is important vs orcs I think. And on tavern map I sometimes get as 2nd hero BM or FL, then u have 2 heroes and he still 1.......I dont build many foots becoz chainwave. And few my tricks are:

- attack you him, if has AM lvl2, he will be no expected this, u can destory shop, burrows ew. kill some workers, if he TP or back to base oyu also can retreat
- if he has no shop TC sux, becoz he is low-mana stupid cow at lvl 1, so after chianwave u can reatreat use healin scroll from your shop and attack again;)

And yes I also play agressive vs orcs, becoz they ussualy no except it....and MK+wizards imba....

Sometimes I play mas summons AM+FL+BM (ew. pall could be 3rd to heal them and if I fast tech, I take knights/gryphons)

[True2theCode]

U didnt get, right ? I am talkin about an orc.....orc attacks all the time...good orcs creep only for making expand, so human cant attack.....what magicians are u talkin about.....i wrote about specific time of attack just when orc gets TC and he already got 5-6 grunts.....At this time human got only 6 footies and he is making MK NO MAGICIANS HERE. Agressive playin?!? SURE...but with what? GOOD ORCS DONT CREEP ALL THE TIME THEY ATTACK ALL THE TIME....i didnt ask u to tell me what u do vs orc, i asked u for a different tactic where at the time orc gets his TC i would have enough army to stop him, AND I AM TALKIN ABOUT GOOD ORCS WITH GOOD MICRO....attackin FS!!! are u mad, footies and AM will die at the moment he is not stupid to leave FS to die....pfff...no matter pls i am waiting for more suggestions

[Terrorboy]

Then go to www.replayes.net or www.replayers.com and learn how to play;) And u dont build rifles before MK out? And what with noobiane tower?

[True2theCode]

i will watch 10 reps until i find somethin like that...if i make rifles the MK wont come enough fast.....what the **** do u mean with noobian tower ?!? ( u mean the tower that drains mana !?!)

[Terrorboy]

Then go to www.replayes.net or www.replayers.com and learn how to play It was joke I know u are good player:D And yes, I mean arcane (noobiane:p ) tower, IMO very effective vs orc in early phase of game.....

[brain-o-man]

Originally posted by True2theCode
U didnt get, right ? I am talkin about an orc.....orc attacks all the time...good orcs creep only for making expand, so human cant attack.....what magicians are u talkin about.....i wrote about specific time of attack just when orc gets TC and he already got 5-6 grunts.....At this time human got only 6 footies and he is making MK NO MAGICIANS HERE. Agressive playin?!? SURE...but with what? GOOD ORCS DONT CREEP ALL THE TIME THEY ATTACK ALL THE TIME....i didnt ask u to tell me what u do vs orc, i asked u for a different tactic where at the time orc gets his TC i would have enough army to stop him, AND I AM TALKIN ABOUT GOOD ORCS WITH GOOD MICRO....attackin FS!!! are u mad, footies and AM will die at the moment he is not stupid to leave FS to die....pfff...no matter pls i am waiting for more suggestions
are u sure orc can have 6 grunts 2. hero and u just 5 foots?
does that mean u have 2 k gold ? :P

[ViviIsNotNoob]

Are u noob urself or what ?
Orc is gosu ! wtf ? and what... even if he is gosu he is not 2 LV untill u lose enought footies to help him, soo he does not have anyone who can kill ur Am or even footies if u r not noob or host lags...
just attack wolfes get Elementals and kill his Fs if he run away be sure he go to heal that u can start agressive play....
huh...gush...i wonder who is noob here...

PS
Not every orc play like Grubby, don't u know that?

[True2theCode]

pffffff......good orcs(NOT GOSU ORCS) keep their FS save all the time...a little bit more good orcs keep their wolves....when he goes heal i will have to heal 2 thats for sure. While i am upgrading i have to build 2 more farms 2 more footies blacksmith lumbermill and shop(i forgot the name) WHERE THE **** I WILL GET 2k GOLD ?!? When the upgrade is done i have only money to make MK....then(if i am still alive) i make magician and other stuff...
i dont know about u vivi but not every orcs plays like a noob AND THERE ARE VERY MUCH ORCS WHO PLAY LIKE GRUBBY...the only difference is that grubby is full of ideas and he can change this his tactic whenever he wants....I am waiting for more suggestions....10x for everyone who posted in my thread....

[Terrorboy]

But if he has 2 heroes, 5-6 grunts and u only 2 heroes and 6 footies something strange is here.....u know, footies build faster then grunts. BTW if u NO build noobiane tower, you should upgrade near same time as orc.

[True2theCode]

yeah i know terrorboy but while orc is upgrading he makes only grunts no buildings (well maybe some burrow but....) nothin more coz he dont need anythin else coz after mass grunts he builds spirit loungne ( or somethin like that ) but human while upgrading makes a lot of buildings which take a lot of money and making more than 6 footies is stupid...but waitin untill blacksmith comes.......i dont know thats why i wanted to discuss this with other human players...ohh and yes i make noobian tower coz without it human dies very fast....

[ViviIsNotNoob]

U say strange things, really
Every human can after grade make Mk + 2 arcanes, when later they will start make 2 sorcess then 2 priest, if only u don't waste ur money on something does not even need for now, and also rifles is allowed b4 Mk, not after....

[True2theCode]

vivi i dont know how u play but i can see u are not a gosu. Believe me i tried much tactics and if u make rifles before MK that means that u will get MK when orc gots shamans demolishers and mas grunts coz making rifles takes a lot of resources time and of corse farms.....so slowing MK is not the best thing.....and....
I STARTED THIS THREAND TO ASK HOW TO HANDLE ORCS ATTACK BEFORE I GET TO CASTERS...pfff.......i see that this wont help.....if anybody knows good strat for rifles without footies pls write u suggestion......ohh and one more thing i dl some reps human vs ud... all of these reps human got mass army and expand but ud crashes him only with some abos and destros...and thats really anoying

[TheFuckingScorp]

first of all:

Originally posted by Terrorboy
Then go to www.replayes.net or www.replayers.com and learn how to play;) And u dont build rifles before MK out? And what with noobiane tower?

90% of the games orc vs human (with gosus) are won by orcs

then... if u wanna beat good orc u must have twice his apm

orc is imba vs human at the begining because: if u make foots, he kills them with chain+wave... if u make rifles, he kills them with grunts (he will have more then your rifles) because normal attack of grunt -extra damage on rifles, if he gets purge or ensnare, u can't take your rifles back

then i guess the only chance is to avoid any kind of contact with the orc army untill u make mass rifles (to concentrate fire on grunts, cause grunts can't concentrate on rifles because they would be moving on the battlefield, and just 3,4 will attack) , and priests (lots) and few sorceresses... it would be great if u will go creeping somewhere he can't find u, and have teleport all the time in case he attacks your base (and a 'noobian' tower of course).... on 2 rivers, or echo isles, u have no chance to do this
it's imposible to beat a same-level orc on this small maps...

if u want rifles without footies, u can play my strategy, but it's very risky (and i must tell u that i played it more then 200 times)...
don't make mk+pala like i do, make AM, especialy on small maps... if u have bigger map like gnoll wood u can try mk+pala cause if u get big levels u have greater chance then mk+am

[True2theCode]

10x for advise man...i just beat good orc playin that strategy and i will go post replay but it was so ****in hard...i had to haras him instead of he harasing me ^^....i think now i get it...i mean how should i play vs orcs... the **** is to buy for MK lots of porions like potion of health and invinsibility and get him infront of ur rifles or army or whatever u got...while he is concreting fire on MK u can kill most of his grunts with rifles...but if he dont attack MK........then...well u know....anyway 10x again scorp......waiting for more advises

[Demonhide_PT]

:p copyrighted by The****ingScorp ^^ u must pay him:D

still, if u dont wanna waste time in rifles, u can have scrolls of healing to counter chain + shock, just go to the goblin shop, when they are avaliable, it comes in great help

[TheFuckingScorp]

i saw the game good game... good micro at first, after it was kinda' bad... and if u go to castle, u can try gryphons instead of knights, especialy if u see that he doesn't scout your base... and make the aviarys in the bottom of the base, so that he won't see them... do this if he makes shamans, cause that means he doesn't have beastiary and he can't train betraiders... if he makes wolves with ensnare go to knights

one more thing... when u retreat from a battle, try to deselect water elem from controll and leave them behind... they will slow down orc's army and make some more damage... then if he attacks the watter run with it to creeps and attack

[True2theCode]

i know these things but its kind of hard...i got lag coz of my stupid connection and micro big armies is imposible....about the water i know but sometimes i just think of other thinks...oh and demonhide i know about the scrools of healing but they kind of expensive....

[Terrorboy]

MK+pall is stupid idea, becoz without AM human army is 30% weaker......and u creep slower. Hmmm I watched lots of high-level players replays they 90% of games play AM+MK (ew. FL or BM sometimes) and didn't notice 90% winners are orcs:rolleyes:

[True2theCode]

i dont know about orcs but 90% of human vs ud games are owened by ud....its kind of the same with the games human vs orc

[Terrorboy]

Well as some1 said War3 is game where every player think his race is the weakest:D If human sux for you just switch to other race;) For me personally hardest match is orc and mirror....NE is easiest, UD 2nd.

[TheFuckingScorp]

vs ud!!! TRUST ME AM sucx, MK + PALA rox!!! and my strategy with fast rifles is the best (except 2 rivers or pi)

[True2theCode]

i never lost mirror in xpam coz its very easy( for me )...elf is easy 2...but i dont know vs what ud's u play guys....destro abo ownz human so ****in easily...if i knew how to handle orc and ud i wouldnt say that human is weak, i wouldnt started this forum...but i do have these problems...

[TheFuckingScorp]

i'll tell u for undead now...

for human u only have to go tier 2 , make 4-5 priests, and mass rifles, mk+pala
ud must go tier 3 to make abominations and destroyers (destro form takes a lot after ud upgrades to t3)...
then... destroyers make less damage to rifles(magic damage vs medium armor), and abominations can't concentrate fire cause they are big fat pigs and 2-3 max can attack 1 rifle (if u position yourself good in the battle)... u concentrate fire and u own... if the dk has many items (invulnerability, healing, etc), leave him alone, shoot other units... if he doesn't then concentrate fire on him, make him 2-300 damage with riflemans, then storm bolt (other 200 damage), holy light (200) and more fire with rifles whlie he's stunned... and he's gone... ud without dk is 0

then consider this : while u make creeping from t1 he doesn't cause he's saving gold for expensive destros and abos...
and another thing - abos and destros DON'T have same upgrades... while human can upgr rifles 2-2 very easily

[True2theCode]

yeah i know these stuff...in a matter of fact i used ur tactic and smashed one ud....10x very much....but if he knows that u play rifles priest can make 20 ghouls easily and surround ur army...3 heroes and some obsibian and ur rifles and priest die....anyway its perfect vs abos+destro ^^

[TheFuckingScorp]

yes, ur true about when he's massing ghouls... i had some problems with some guys that did this... but if u are attantive when he wants to attack, and u start concentrating fire in the first moment u saw him on map, u will allready kill 5 ghouls before he surrounds your army... then if u have the mk in front, he has no chance to win the battle -THUNDER CLAP lvl 2 and the ghouls are slown down like sheeps, and u can kill 5 more...

if u are unlucky and he catches u creeping, with your heroes at the back of your army, then u screwed it... the statues don't make much diffrence, cause u concentrate fire on each ghoul, using shift key

[True2theCode]

5-10 ghouls are much but if he plays only on ghouls he can get 30 ghouls easily with 2 obsibian then u just aint stand a chance.....and if ud gets me creeping i will TP, every human have to have a TP all the time coz he cant just get away with scroll of speed or hide in the shadows(like elves)........

[TheFuckingScorp]

hu vs orc games... there are 3 reps on wcreplays.com featuring sk.take(hu) and mtw-taker(orc)... 2 are won by take

here are the links... they're very good replays

http://www.wcreplays.com/replays.php?get=5770

http://www.wcreplays.com/replays.php?get=5769

http://www.wcreplays.com/replays.php?get=5768

[True2theCode]

10x i will watch them now...tak3r is so damn good player i still remember how he used to kick inso's butt

[True2theCode]

really nice reps but i gotta be some freaken gosu to play like SK.take......he is so damn good

[TheFuckingScorp]

yea... i told u u must have very good micro to stand-up for a good orc

[True2theCode]

yeah but having good micro is very hard....and not may humans can micro good...so if 2 players with same skills (human and orc) fight one vs another the work will win.......

[TheFuckingScorp]

look, maybe the best hu vs orc replay, to describe a normal Hu vs orc game

[True2theCode]

Heh when i loose vs orc i am freaken out....i rushed one orc, i killed 2 of his grunts without loosing anythin.....and somehow he winz the game with second hero fire lord...........and whyrms......i was astonished.......that was the biggest bull****......i micro as good as i could but............pfff no matter...........10x man i will watch the replay......ohh and whoever says that human is imbalanced i will brake his ****in head , and thats for real

[True2theCode]

omg man the orc was so stupd and he almost win....he was healing his grunts with scrolls of healing and when he was gettin into fight all his grunts were on half health i dont think their skills are equal....ohhh and the human WAS SO ****IN LUCKY...by the way how u always find reps with bulgarians in them?!? G2H.Ronin is bulgarian and ur game vs i7.Zeelox he is bulgarian 2

[TheFuckingScorp]

yea, he was noob, he lost the hero (didn't tp it) in human's base.... and some other mistakes...
i get replays only from wcreplays.com... and i take only when grubby, zakard, moon, etc plays or when is hu vs orc or vs ud if the human wins (nomatter who plays)...

[True2theCode]

yeah i dl only from wcreplays too, but only when my cd key is used....i watched how insomnia lost his game vs u.cant.win man this ud was lucky.....anyway what is ur acc in bnet

[_KlIP]

Originally posted by brain-o-man
are u sure orc can have 6 grunts 2. hero and u just 5 foots?
does that mean u have 2 k gold ? :P

i can just say ROFL...it can be ....only in SIngle Player game with cheats...