religion vs science vs politics

[[RO]Claudiu]

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My believes are like this :

politicians hired priests to control the population , to keep it blind of what is really happening .

back in the time when the simple-minded human could not explain events from nature like :

- who made all this?
- where is that rain coming from?
- what is that bright light that comes from the sky?
- what came first : the chicken or the egg ?

Due to the fact that there was weak understanding of how things work in the world , man INVENTED gods .

who made all this ?

- god

where does rain come from ?

- god

who makes that bright light come from the sky ?

- god

what came first : the chicken or the egg ?

- neither , god came first and created both of them at the same time .


Over the passage of time , back when history wasn't even recorded ( prehistory ) there was a god for every unexplained phenomenon that man encountered in his evolution .

As man evolved so did religion , now there is only 1 god that loves you and sends you to hell if you don't play by the rules ( man-made rules ) .


religion and politics vs Science :

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politics = easy money : tell the people what they want to know and they will vote for you to get paid insane amounts of money while sleeping in a chair inside an important state building .

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religion is a profession , designed to produce ..... money.

[[RO]Claudiu]

ahh and here is something i think is very relevant :

- take a primitive and intellectualy undeveloped tribe of people from early times of human evolution .

- lightning strikes the land .

- they think that the deity is angry .

- if a hurricane swipes the land , they got rid of certain people from the tribe hoping that the deity would not produce another hurricane .

- if a second hurricane were to occur they would sacrifice some of the younger people , rarely would the chief sacrifice himself cause he always has a hole line of people ready to sacrifice .


here is Jacque Fresco better saying it himself :

eu12LI0oKpU

[Bonzy]

Yes , well , that is the sad truth... Still , people have a need to be in a certain groups , even if those are as banal as religion is , even if a lot of people see deceit in that story they still close their eyes on that , just to belong somewhere , if it wasn't like that there would be a revolution and the fall of Christianity , if you ask me.

I myself believe in God , not Christian God , but a philosophical God as the first unmovable mover of things , as Aristotle said , because there are things that my mind can't explain to myself anyhow but this way. All people need belief in something to explain unexplainable.

People interested in this should check Zeitgeist , the documentary in which 1st part is the matter of Christianity and manipulating by it.

[Mladenus]

God doesn't involve in things on Earth. That's my opinion. Why is that? Because if he would, there would be Heaven on Earth, thus we wouldn't need the upper Heaven.

About politics, I won't even discuss...

Money didn't create greed in people, people are greedy, that's in our nature. We're never satisfied with what we have and only searching for more. That's our curse, and man can never be truly happy.

Listen, I don't really believe in God that Bible made. I have my own point of view about God. God (not equals) Religion. Religion is designed to control people. Not God...

[[RO]Claudiu]

God doesn't involve in things on Earth.

he already has , a few times .... he even had sex with Virgin Mary and if he didn't ... then Jesus is a myth .




Money didn't create greed in people.

money is the object of greed.

[Mladenus]

Claudiu;1097217']he already has , a few times .... he even had sex with Virgin Mary and if he didn't ... then Jesus is a myth .

money is the object of greed.

Well, of course, that's out of question, I wasn't literally thinking about that. I was talking about "bad things", such as diseases, earthquakes, tragedies, etc...

Money is not the only object of greed. It's only one of them. Greed is when you want more than you really need. It doesn't have to be money or anything material... Wishing someone's happiness for yourself is greed. There are many examples of manifesting greed.

[TBK.Goldy]

here's what i think:

1. Imo Bible is a philosophical book. 90% of the people don't understand it and read it word by word. You need to read between the lines. There are many examples in the bible, can't name them all. Which means the book was written to command people what they should do.

2. Money has nothing to do with PRIMAL GREED. If you saw two dogs fighting for one bone, would you say it's becuz of money? No. Money is just human equivalent of the object of greed (like Claudiu said).

3. Woman is the source of all evil. First chapter of the Bible, after the creation of Eden, has shown how woman destroyed man's paradise. Trojan war was led bcuz of a woman. Priests are forbidden to marry. etc... many examples more. Why men lead wars today? For more money? For more territories? For power? Guess what. Money, power and land are things that attract..... women.

4. Considering god? Man is still an animal. Remember, we only walk upstraight for some 1.8 million years. We need something higher than us to run to in our hour of need. God is a thing invented by man. As a defensive mechanism from going crazy. And 99% of the people on earth will say atleast one time in their lives they are belivers. And at that time they will even kill you for saying the god does not exist. Because by killing their god, you actually kill them, and leave them in solitude, and as a pack animal, no human will allow his life be ruined by some "nonbeliver".

[Mladenus]

3. Woman is the source of all evil. First chapter of the Bible, after the creation of Eden, has shown how woman destroyed man's paradise. Trojan war was led bcuz of a woman. Priests are forbidden to marry. etc... many examples more. Why men lead wars today? For more money? For more territories? For power? Guess what. Money, power and land are things that attract..... women.

Move to humor, please... :)

Or may I take it as a signature? ;)

[TBK.Goldy]

That's not funny. That's sad. I didn't make that up. If I wrote everything I've read, no one would ever read it. There are infinite pages to this subject. About women.

Sure, there are jokes too... but we're not here for that.

[Mladenus]

Do you really believe in that, Zlatko? If you do, share it with us here, please. I'd like to hear that.

[Cen]

politicians hired priests to control the population , to keep it blind of what is really happening .
Maybe there were some periods in history when this migh be true, but most of the time, politics and the church stood against each other. You can't claim this as a general truth.

religion is a profession , designed to produce ..... money.
You should specify which religions not just talk overall and in generally.

he already has , a few times .... he even had sex with Virgin Mary and if he didn't ... then Jesus is a myth .
I think you've been reading the Da Vinci code too much. You cant back up this because there is no evidence.

About the all loving God, why God is sending deseases and other repeating and boring claims...

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
God is like human. I think this answers all your questions about God's behaviour.


@goldy: The point is, that we'll never found out whether it's true or false. You can't know for sure. (point 3)

[[RO]Claudiu]

Well, of course, that's out of question, I wasn't literally thinking about that. I was talking about "bad things", such as diseases, earthquakes, tragedies, etc...

Money is not the only object of greed. It's only one of them. Greed is when you want more than you really need. It doesn't have to be money or anything material... Wishing someone's happiness for yourself is greed. There are many examples of manifesting greed.


- earthquakes are natural events and exist to serve the balance of nature.
- money represents everything , what you eat , what you need , what you dress up in . money is the object of greed . you cant want anything else besides money because if you have money you have everything in this corrupt world where even lives are worth an amount of money .




You should specify which religions not just talk overall and in generally.

I think you've been reading the Da Vinci code too much. You cant back up this because there is no evidence.

About the all loving God, why God is sending deseases and other repeating and boring claims...

God is like human. I think this answers all your questions about God's behaviour.


- i never read the Da Vinci code but it sounds interesting i think i will do that sometimes .

- i did not specify what religion is a profession because i was talking about ALL religion . priests need money too , for example they sell candles for special occasions and rituals of brainless god worshipping then they sell the wax from the candles to companies that make candles . end of story ... the church sells religion and as long as they sell it for money there comes greed and corruption .... along with money .

[Cen]

let he who is without sin, cast the first stone

About money as the object of greed, I dissagree, because there are some things you can't buy, end of story.

[Mladenus]

Claudiu;1097347']- earthquakes are natural events and exist to serve the balance of nature.
- money represents everything , what you eat , what you need , what you dress up in . money is the object of greed . you cant want anything else besides money because if you have money you have everything in this corrupt world where even lives are worth an amount of money .

Yea, you mentioned disasters such as diseases and similar things. Many people think God sends those. I'm speaking about those people. I see you confirm this guy on tube (forgot his name), so I brought conclusion that you're sharing his opinion.

As for money, Cen said it. So, greed doesn't always have to be about money. I even said example.

[[RO]Claudiu]

About money as the object of greed, I dissagree, because there are some things you can't buy, end of story.

you can pretty much buy most things in the world ... even people are for sale , opinions are for sale also ... politicians are for sale ofc and politics sells everything .

and don't give me that : " you cant buy love with money " .... well of course you cant but you can buy sex and its basically the same :D .

tell me Cen ... what is the one thing that you desire and you can't buy it if you had an infinite amount of money .

here is what id buy if i had money :

• i'd finance the venus project (http://www.thevenusproject.com/) . Jacque Fresco spent all his life studying the problems of mankind and this is the result of all his work : to make the world a better place for everyone ... ofcourse it cant come true as long as those with power dont need the world to be a better place for those without power .

[Nery]

Money is your god :ohmy:.



























At least thats what you're led to believe.


Disagree? Are you ready to wake up?
Close your eyes and find your way. You're the only that can truly enlighten yourself. Don't stay asleep...don't fall in the religion crap, just be consciously aware.

[[RO]Claudiu]

look at this :

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US congressman Hank Johnson actualy said on live television that the island of Guam will tip over due to population cap .

this is the typical politician .... he bought his position in congress . he has no idea what world he lives on . he only knows how to be payed for saying bullshit on tv .

notice the way he talks ..... he is completely clueless about what's going on .

[Cen]

probably a miracle.

[Mladenus]

Claudiu;1097906']and don't give me that : " you cant buy love with money " .... well of course you cant but you can buy sex and its basically the same :D ..

What the fuck? Are you serious? :eek:

Claudiu, if you really think that way, you disappointed me, man...

[Bonzy]

I have found this interesting and stupid...



3. Woman is the source of all evil. First chapter of the Bible, after the creation of Eden, has shown how woman destroyed man's paradise. Trojan war was led bcuz of a woman. Priests are forbidden to marry. etc... many examples more. Why men lead wars today? For more money? For more territories? For power? Guess what. Money, power and land are things that attract..... women

Woman destroyed man's paradise? It belongs to men , and not to women? The myth goes like this - snake convinced Eve that it is good for her to eat from that tree , she is convinced and eats it and then she gives the apple to Adam who also eats it. God comes and throws them out of Eden. Curiosity might be a bitch , but it is a virtue actually.

Trojan war? Trojan war is a myth , and maybe didn't even happen. The part about Helen is surely a myth , so you can't talk about it as an example.

Priests are forbidden to marry. They chose that way of life as they wanted to become priests. It doesn't have to do anything with women.

Men lead wars for power , money and land just to attract women? Are you for real? Hey , all this attracts women , but it attracts men also the same. Not only young girls marry old bastards for wealth , young men also marry old cows for it. Being evil doesn't have to do anything with sex , the only reason it is seen like that is because women are in worse position in society than men so men are usually the wealthy ones and women are attracted to that. If it was reverse , if women were rich while men were poor , and if women had all the power , don't you think women would also fight for men by money , power , land? Don't you think that men would be attracted to that?

[[RO]Claudiu]

you disappointed me, man...

Sorry to disappoint you , man .. but this thread is not about you so unless you are a priest/politician/scientist your disappointment is not worth mentioning here .

for the record , you can buy love also :

- women love money and consequently women love men with money .



probably a miracle.

define a specific miracle .

[Cen]

I'd like to be Goku.

[[RO]Claudiu]

I'd like to be Goku.

so you wanna be 2 dimensional ? ok then .. i can perform this miracle myself :

[Mladenus]

You will change your opinion when you feel love, Claudiu... Then we'll discuss about it. Or maybe your favorite Naruto character is Sasuke?

[[RO]Claudiu]

You will change your opinion when you feel love, Claudiu... Then we'll discuss about it. Or maybe your favorite Naruto character is Sasuke?

This thread is not about love and not about Naruto either so what are you trying to do ?

offtopic :

1. i know what love is .
2. my favorite naruto character is Jiraiya because i got alot in common with him .. so i dont know what you were trying to prove with the naruto stuff . sasuke is not gay btw ... he just didnt find the right one :D

[Mladenus]

No, I tried to explain this through anime, but nevermind.

If you know what love is, how can you say it can be bought? Love and sex are not fucking the same thing... Money can't buy a shit, if you ask me. But the thing is, if you're materialist, you probably think that money is all-mighty. This world we live in is like that, so I don't mind you being like that. But, my point is, there are many things you can't achieve with money. Such things are: personal satisfaction over something, hate, love, happiness, non-consciousness, intelligence and many other important things.

[[RO]Claudiu]

Such things are: personal satisfaction over something, hate, love, happiness, non-consciousness, intelligence and many other important things.

money can relate to everything :

- personal satisfaction over the fact that you have money.
- hate because you dont have money .
- love the fact that you have money .
- happiness because you dont need money or have too much of it .
- non-conciousness - i have no idea what your interpretation of this is .
- intelligence because you bought allot of expensive mind-expanding technology like the internet , books , ginko pills , a desk , a desk lamp , aromatherapy and things that create the perfect environment to expand your mind instead of shrinking it .

p.s. you tried to explain love by relating it to naruto ..... lets not write things that have many interpretations . for example i dont know what Sasuke resembles to you . everyone has his own interpretation of the Sasuke word .

~ if you have an idea you say it straight , no play on words , no riddles .

[Bonzy]

It is true that money influences your feelings , human feelings are a lot more shallow than we hope they are. Still , not EVERYTHING can be bought with money , and that small part of things that can't be bought is one of the best parts a human has.

[Mladenus]

Claudiu;1098098']money can relate to everything :

- personal satisfaction over the fact that you have money.
- hate because you dont have money .
- love the fact that you have money .
- happiness because you dont need money or have too much of it .
- non-conciousness - i have no idea what your interpretation of this is .
- intelligence because you bought allot of expensive mind-expanding technology like the internet , books , ginko pills , a desk , a desk lamp , aromatherapy and things that create the perfect environment to expand your mind instead of shrinking it .

p.s. you tried to explain love by relating it to naruto ..... lets not write things that have many interpretations . for example i dont know what Sasuke resembles to you . everyone has his own interpretation of the Sasuke word .

~ if you have an idea you say it straight , no play on words , no riddles .


It is true that money influences your feelings , human feelings are a lot more shallow than we hope they are. Still , not EVERYTHING can be bought with money , and that small part of things that can't be bought is one of the best parts a human has.

Basically, Bonzy said everything.

Money relates to other things, to your feelings, if you are a materialist. Matter of fact, every one of us is materialist (more/less). As the fact is that we're all related to money, somehow. However, I'm speaking about basics. The fact is that money can't affect/change the way you feel in one moment (I'm not speaking about need for buying expensive car or some other similar mockery, talking about real things). The point is, money can't buy happiness. And that's the fact. You won't be happy as a billioner, you'll just be rich.

[Cen]

Claudiu;1098098']money can relate to everything :

- personal satisfaction over the fact that you have a bike.
- hate because you dont have a bike.
- love the fact that you have a bike.
- happiness because you dont need a bike or have too many of them.
- non-conciousness - i have no idea what your interpretation of this is .
- intelligence because you bought allot of bikes and got better ones when trading


Fixed. You can insert whatever you want in your statements. Not just the money.

[[RO]Claudiu]

Fixed. You can insert whatever you want in your statements. Not just the money.

and i suppose the bike is free ? you cant have a bike unless you buy it or make it but making it requires materials and they cost money also .

[Bonzy]

Basically, Bonzy said everything.

Money relates to other things, to your feelings, if you are a materialist. Matter of fact, every one of us is materialist (more/less). As the fact is that we're all related to money, somehow. However, I'm speaking about basics. The fact is that money can't affect/change the way you feel in one moment (I'm not speaking about need for buying expensive car or some other similar mockery, talking about real things). The point is, money can't buy happiness. And that's the fact. You won't be happy as a billioner, you'll just be rich.

I agree for the most , but on some things I disagree. Don't fool yourself , you will be happy if you have a lot of money. It is just that you won't be happy as you can be when you find love. Choosing between money and love I would choose love , but choosing between money and nothing I would choose money , it just can't be bad , can't make you sad if you have a bit of brains , for example if you don't let people ab(use) you for it or if you let it become known and become harassed in press and on the streets and similar. Love and money is just a perfect combination , 'tho love is much better :)

[Mladenus]

Hmmm... Well, I think the only way human can be truly happy is when in love. In that "condition", we don't need much else... However, with money, well... You can be happy. Some time... Then again, you realize that you don't have much. And then you wish for more. You wish something else, something you don't have. Human is unable to be truly happy, because we're not satisfied with what we have, instead we're demanding more (this only doesn't apply on us in love "condition"). :)

[[RO]Claudiu]

money relates to love which relates to affection :

- you look like this :

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/uncyclopedia/images/d/de/Al_bundy.JPG

if you don't have money ( his wife doesnt love him btw )


- you look like this :

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/6260/pimp.png

if you have money .

so in conclusion . Al Bundy ( the symbol of poverty ) gets less affection than Shaggy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaggy_(musician)) ( a rich pimp who sings raggae )


:tiphat: